nzlockie (PRO)Calvin and Hobbes is the greatest comic serial strip ever written. It's laugh-out-loud funny, poignant, nostalgic, heart warming, thought provoking and satirical. All of which is packed into 4 simple frames of genius.
The CHARACTERS:
Calvin is a boy, both intelligent and clueless, optimistic and skeptical, imaginative to a fault and yet grounded in reality.
Hobbes is his stuffed tiger who appears as if alive to Calvin. He acts as his voice of reason in all things, and is never wrong.
There are several recurring characters, His Dad who is clearly a grown up prankster trouble maker - just like his son.
His Mom is portrayed mostly as the backbone of the household. She is both the disciplinarian and the compassionate one.
Suzie is Calvin school friend. Well sort of. Calvin is still at that hair-pulling phase.
There are several things that go into making a funny cartoon a timeless comic strip masterpiece. The material needs to be simple yet engaging. With only four panels to work with, the artist has to communicate his thoughts and ideas very effectively.
A great serial is able to fulfill its primary function of amusing escapism to a point where it has earned the right to really engage with its audience, and make them think and feel.
Over the next few rounds I'll be submitting evidence as to why Calvin and Hobbes is not just a GREAT serial comic strip, but is the GREATEST serial comic strip!
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-27 09:00:32
| Speak Round
9spaceking (CON)Garfield is superior--if not just as good.
It breaks fourth wall, has unexpected endings, and is every bit as humorous as C & H.
The relationship between John and Garfield is hilarious. Garfield seems to not only be his pet, but also a good companion. A lazy companion that expects his "friend" to serve him, that is.
They can communicate quite well, regardless of their species difference.
Garfield's comic strips do the most unusual plot twists possible.
Does Calvin and Hobbes have these kind of plot twists? I think not. There are only so much ways Calvin can be trolled by his father or his friends. His imagination can only go as far as the teachers' interruptions. He can only have so much intelligent discussions with his tiger friend. On the other hand, John can go on dates to give Garfield jealousy.
While usually John has a terrible life and complains a lot, he has some sunshine at times...
...And unexpectedly the love can even bloom!
There are also hilarious parodies of Garfield, while Calvin and Hobbes has no parodies!
One of my favorites is "Garfield minus Garfield", in which Garfield is removed from the comic strip, making Jon's craziness (and sad life) even more obvious...
It's kind of sad, really. But it's the sadness of his life that makes this parody funny!
Even the Garfield RANDOMNIZER is pretty darn funny at times!
Can Calvin and Hobbes be funny with random strips? Do they even HAVE a Calvin and Hobbes randomizer?
I don't think so.
There's a good reason--no, many, MANY good reasons--why Garfield is "the world's most widely syndicated comic strip" according to Guinness World Records.
Calvin and Hobbes is a good comic, alright. It lasted ten years. But Garfield is even better. It lasted from 1978 and is still currently being published in newspapers. So vote for Garfield.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-27 09:48:52
| Speak Roundnzlockie (PRO)The primary purpose of a great comic serial is to entertain and amuse.
Calvin and Hobbes achieves this with clever comedy - rather than resorting to fart jokes, and put downs - like Garfield does in most of the strips my opponent has put forward for his first round.
I dedicate this round to showcasing the pure comedy of Calvin and Hobbes - featuring one of my favorite Calvin characters - Stupendous Man!
(<<< Favorite one!)
Now when evaluating this, you must bear in mind that this is a comic SERIAL. That means that this story was slowly revealed over the course of ten separate days. Each set of panels needed to stand on its own merits and be a complete story in and of itself, and yet also be part of the larger whole.
Bill Watterson succeeds in this with no compromise to the humor and the story. Not an easy task!
It should be pointed out that Calvin and Hobbes succeeds in doing what few Newspaper funnies do - it gives the reader a reason to buy the paper the next day!
In the category of CLEVER COMEDY - Calvin and Hobbes stands head and shoulders over, (yawn) a fat lazy cat who hates Mondays and loves Lasagna.
It should be pointed out that Calvin and Hobbes succeeds in doing what few Newspaper funnies do - it gives the reader a reason to buy the paper the next day!
In the category of CLEVER COMEDY - Calvin and Hobbes stands head and shoulders over, (yawn) a fat lazy cat who hates Mondays and loves Lasagna.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-27 20:31:54
| Speak Round9spaceking (CON)My opponent tries using Calvin's alter-ego, Stupendous Man. But he does not point out why this is so amazing. Why, Garfield has alter-egos too! When I search up "Garfield alter-ego", what comes up?
That's right, my friends. Garfield is secretly Peter Parker, aka Spider-man. How unexpected and hilarious at the same time!
Once again, Garfield wins in the category of unpredictability. Things can quickly spiral out of control. Some comics can be Garfield merely acting smart...
...With smart-aleck answers to Jon's questions...
...Or crazy outrageous stories out of a simple diet!
And even if Garfield isn't serial, it manages humor in every strip, whether regular humor appealing to the adults, or ridiculous humor appealing to the children. Garfield has wide audiences. That is why it lasted more than 30 years and counting. That is why the publishers of Calvin and Hobbes ran out of clever ideas after 10 years. That is also why Garfield is so versatile, even removing Garfield can make the comic funny. On the other hand, removing Hobbes makes the other comic non-sensical.
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Garfield can even die a few times and the comic can still go on!
Does Calvin ever die? Of course not. And obviously a stuffed tiger cannot die either.
Some strips of Garfield can even hold mystery. Serious, serious mystery!
See? Quite mysterious, no? Part of the comic can be mystifying, and a great experience.The creator tries to mystify the audience during special holidays, especially Halloween. Here is another Halloween special, although a little bit lighter and on the humorous side:
Does Calvin and Hobbes do this? Nope. No creepy Halloween specials, no mysterious terrifying Calvin or Hobbes, just the natural order.
As you can see Garfield clearly trumps Calvin and Hobbes. Vote for Garfield.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-28 03:04:02
| Speak Roundnzlockie (PRO)At the halfway point of this debate on which is a better comic strip, I'd planned to do any rebuttal that might be needed. There hasn't been much, but there are a few points my opponent has brought up so I'll quickly address them now.
Writing techniques - both comics regularly break the fourth wall, both have imaginative plot twists and unexpected endings. It's my contention that Bill Watterson is a better story teller than Jim Davis, so as a result C&H tends to have BETTER plot twists and MORE INTERESTING storylines.
Character Development - C&H has more regular characters than Garfield, (I've only listed a few here) and ALL of these characters have more depth than Davis gives Garfield. That depth allows us to connect with the characters and Watterson to deliver a wider range of storylines. I'll be submitting these in the final rounds of this debate.
Fit for purpose - My opponent already conceded that Calvin and Hobbes meets the "serial" aspect of the comic better than Garfield.
Longevity - Due to character management, I'll address this issue, as well as that of merchandising, next round. For now, I'll just say that ANYBODY will tell you that the key to this kind of media is knowing when is the right time to end a series.
Last round I proved that Calvin and Hobbes is clever comedy. My opponent confirmed this by countering with the same tired old Garfield jokes. Garfield makes fun of Jon, Garfield eats a lot. The last two strips were just weird. Seriously.
This round, I'll be showcasing a different side of Calvin. This is some of that poignancy and depth that I was talking about. This series contains an important message, both to adults and to children. It manages to put just the right amount of humor into a very serious situation.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-28 11:39:49
| Speak Round9spaceking (CON)Clever comedy? Your comic is repetitive as well. It's either Calvin failing his tests or being trolled by someone (his father, his tiger pet, the smart-aleck student in his class, etc.)
I will now show how Garfield is very deep too, AND with humor included as well.
Now, other than that mystifying Halloween experience, there are other deep strips too:
We see here, even the complaining job-working John knows some life lessons, as well as Garfield. And he tries his best to follow his morals, even if he fails at times...
Every single comic is hilarious! Even when the comic has a purpose to serve, as to introduce and tell you about the comic strip, it's still funny. Which strip am I speaking about? The very first. What was Calvin's first comic strip?
Okay, kind of funny, but very random and non-nonsensical, if you think about it. No introductions, no useful information, just jumping right into the plot. I don't mind that, but there's a better way to start off a comic strip than a random joke that doesn't really make any sense....
See? He introduces himself, Garfield introduces himself, and he explains what his comic is supposed to do....with Garfield displaying his trade-mark love of food as the punch-line of the comic. This actually makes some sense, and it isn't sudden and random. depending on some lame "stupid tiger who loves tuna" joke, and not helping to introduce the characters. Hobbes is supposed to be smart, as he is technically controlled by Calvin, who is also intelligent, yet this comic strip does not serve to foreshadow either the smart trolling father, or smart friend Hobbes. On the other hand, the first cartoon strip of Garfield attempts to inform while STILL BEING funny. One strip goes off trying to entertain the little children with weird sports and talking puppet tigers, another gradually develops from ground level, slowly developing the hard-working stressed Jon, and the lazy cat Garfield. The latter comic definitely has more development and is more deep.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-29 03:49:44
| Speak Roundnzlockie (PRO)There was a fault with the strips from last round, not coming up. Here they are:
It's a great story arc which both kids and adults can relate to. Without being preachy about it, it sends a clear message to the readers, while still being entertaining.
Longevity and Merchandising: I promised I'd address this this round. Bill Watterson has been an public critic of many cartoonists, including, specifically Jim Davis, who he accuses of "cheapening" their characters by allowing them to be merchandised. He made a decision early, that he was not going to let Calvin and Hobbes be merchandised. When he finally won that battle against his syndicate, the public started to copy his images everywhere themselves.
Longevity and Merchandising: I promised I'd address this this round. Bill Watterson has been an public critic of many cartoonists, including, specifically Jim Davis, who he accuses of "cheapening" their characters by allowing them to be merchandised. He made a decision early, that he was not going to let Calvin and Hobbes be merchandised. When he finally won that battle against his syndicate, the public started to copy his images everywhere themselves.
That's when he made the decision to quit writing the comic. He wanted Calvin to retire on his own terms and maintain the integrity of the cartoon.
This is why the comic lasted ten years. And it was good. There was a beginning, a middle and an end. Very neat.
This is why the comic lasted ten years. And it was good. There was a beginning, a middle and an end. Very neat.
For my final round, I'd like to remind the judges of the criteria.
You're voting for the comic that best exemplifies the essence of the SERIAL COMIC STRIP.
It's got to be entertaining and it must draw the reader back each day. These are the two fundamental criteria. What makes one strip BETTER than another is how well it achieves this.
My contention is that Calvin and Hobbes is better written, funny and with better character development. It engages the reader and draws them back each day - thus also fulfilling the second fundamental of the serial comic strip.
My contention is that Calvin and Hobbes is better written, funny and with better character development. It engages the reader and draws them back each day - thus also fulfilling the second fundamental of the serial comic strip.
For this round, I'd like to choose one of the most famous story arcs of all. It happened early in the series, and it deals with death. Not your usual subject matter, but again, dealt with simply and elegantly and proof that a cartoon can genuinely engage.
I hope you've enjoyed this debate as much as I have.
Thanks!
Lastly, the mark of truly great comic - the unofficial fan tribute ending.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-29 21:23:43
| Speak Round9spaceking (CON)Garfield as a few touching moments too. Especially when he meets his mother!
There are certain special "weeks" with fully patterning comics. Just as the Calvin and Hobbes different story arcs, Garfield has certain arcs too, not just for humor, but also for an actual certain development. This, in certain ways, is "serial" as well. And what makes Garfield triumph over the other comic is that it can branch off in different "serials", some even lasting months, such as this one where Garfield gets lost in a city--meeting his mother in the process!
There was even a TV special based on this Garfield comic strip, called Garfield on the Town! [source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garfield_on_the_Town]
And Garfield isn't the only smart one, trolling Odie as seen before, or even trolling his owner, Jon. At times, very rarely, unexpectedly the dog fights back and cleverly disposes of Garfield!
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See? The comic isn't predictable at all times. It does not reuse old jokes too much. It relies on different types of jokes, whether simple or complex, and even turns the odds against Garfield (while usually Odie is the one who is manipulated and trolled). It's very impressive how the publishers manage this, even over such a long time.
In conclusion, Garfield reigns supreme over Calvin and Hobbes. The latter is forced to follow one huge story plot to make sense, and relies mostly on subtle humor that doesn't really work out most times, or ridiculous humor that doesn't make any sense (as we see from the first comic). Garfield started off with the right foot even since comic strip number one, and has spiraled off excellently with all its special-holiday strips, and even weekly--or in the city's case, monthly--full strong story plots.
There's a reason why there are TV shows and merchandise everywhere even today concerning Garfield. It is better in every way.
Let me finish with a hilarious Garfield comic strip, showing the development AND consistency of the comic.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-30 05:53:22
| Speak Round
Judge: Blackflag
Judge: sea_shell
http://www.edeb8.com/forum/EDEB8.com+Site/935/0/#post11588Posted 2014-12-24 12:51:23
That's pretty retarded. Sorry matePosted 2014-12-24 12:46:29
That's pretty retarded. Sorry matePosted 2014-12-24 12:46:18
You can't tie a debate on edeb8.Posted 2014-12-24 02:37:15
wtf....how did Nz win...we were tied... -.-Posted 2014-12-24 02:35:23
ohhhhhhhhh snap! We're tied!Posted 2014-12-07 02:16:29
New feature: you can now see when judging ends even if judgments are hiddenPosted 2014-12-06 21:01:48
When does judging end Posted 2014-12-06 04:41:04
nobody...? Noboy's votinging?Posted 2014-12-06 04:15:05
When you favorite a hidden debate, you see the name of the debater when you get the notification that they posted.Posted 2014-12-01 21:23:30
Which bug was this btw?Posted 2014-12-01 18:46:48
Bug is still activePosted 2014-11-28 04:12:09
Pre advice to both debaters. Not fleshing out your arguments will definitely make this more difficult to judgePosted 2014-11-27 15:49:54
Some of these (Calvin and Hobbes ones) are on the window into my classroom!
Not liking Calvin and Hobbes would definitely be a deal breaker for me. Right up there with not liking reggae.Posted 2014-11-27 14:52:18
Haha hidden debates like this are so cool!
Even though we still haven't had one where the participants weren't prematurely revealed yet, we're getting closer each time!
Posted 2014-11-27 11:09:12
Uh, I only knew who the other guy was. You just gave away that you're in the debate. Posted 2014-11-27 10:27:04
Also I'm surprised I'm not con. I LOVE Garfield!Posted 2014-11-27 10:19:57
Somebody could message me these bugs as they find them... that would make fixing them a lot faster. Especially if they told me what the bug was.Posted 2014-11-27 10:18:57
anyhow, you probably wouldn't bet on me now that you know my opposition...a tough one reallyPosted 2014-11-27 09:53:40
Well at least you didn't give away my position....try not to reveal whether I'm pro or con.
The others have a 50/50 chance, and I'd like to keep that advantage.Posted 2014-11-27 09:51:26
....so that's how you figured out I was in the debate. -.-Posted 2014-11-27 09:50:36
Just figured out who Pro is do to a bug. Should I refrain from voting?Posted 2014-11-27 09:47:49
I'm still betting on 9space. I have no idea who else is debating. MightyMike?Posted 2014-11-26 14:31:47
I'm still betting on 9space. I have no idea who else is debating. MightyMike?Posted 2014-11-26 14:31:20
I wanted to argue as con, but I couldn't negotiate the 2000 characters before someone else acceptedPosted 2014-11-26 14:30:53
Haha - I LOVE Calvin & Hobbes! Good luck to anyone trying to argue CON in this one! I might have to recuse myself from voting on this one.
Posted 2014-11-26 14:28:06
what? I would never take such a risk. I haven't seen a lot of Calvin and Hobbes, and from what I've seen, it's a pretty darn amazing strip. The super cool sport game? The alter-egos? Man, it's one of the best, if not the best.Posted 2014-11-26 13:07:35
You obviously arePosted 2014-11-26 13:06:08
invisible participants...NICE! Can't wait to see who's participatingPosted 2014-11-26 12:48:32
Not enough charactersPosted 2014-11-26 12:18:12