IncorrigiblePerspective (PRO)It is a sad indication of the times that we are having this debate at all, not least because the person in question happens to be a presidential candidate. Let me state from the outset the Donald Trump, to me, represents all thats wrong with modern society. He epitomises the greedy, self-indulgent crassness that blights a lot of modern politics, and in doing so highlights the rapid erosion of the quest for the American dream.
However, to those of you who will rightly judge this debate on it's merits, on who argued the case more strongly, you must put any personal feelings you have about Trump to one side. Put aside the obvious fact he is deeply misogynistic, with his belittling comments on women and their appearance (Fox News’ Megyn Kelly called him out during the GOP debate, reminding him: “You have called women you don’t like ‘fat pigs’, ‘dogs’, ‘slobs’, and ‘disgusting animals"). Put aside his repugnant mocking of the New York Times journalist Serge Kovalevski, who suffers with a congenital joint disorder, when he waved his arms around in a deeply offensive impression that earned him widespread condemnation. Put aside every sexist, bigoted, misguided, distasteful, uneducated thing you've ever heard uttered by Donald Trump (and there are a lot), because in this debate we need only focus on one aspect... whether or not Trump is a racist.
To my mind, there is no doubt. He is, by every measurable standard, the very epitome of a racist, non withstanding what he has to say about other minority groups.
Let us first clearly define what racism is, and also what it isn't.
'Racism1. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement,usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.2. A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.'
Please pay particular attention to the secondary definition. 'A policy, system of government etc...' This is a key point in determining whether what Trump says is just free speech or whether it crosses over to racism. Clearly, by definition, we can see that it becomes racist when enacted as policy into a system of governance. When systematic, dogmatic views on certain racial groups manifests itself into a political campaign running for the highest office in the world, it becomes a racist position.
Trump has the constitutionally protected right to say the things he does, and even to run for office on that platform. There is nothing illegal about being a racist, nor anything in law that prevents a racist running for office. This is not about freedom of expression, nor about freedom to offend. Those are separate debates for another day.
I will now lay out a catalogue of examples to indicate why I think Donald trump is a racist.
One of the key indicators of how Donald Trump thinks about non-white groups is in the way he refers to them all the time as a monolithic block, as if they can all just be grouped into broad racial groups who think, feel and act the same way. Anyone who has seen memes such as this....
(cont)... will know that Trump has managed to capture the attention of those who are less than complimentary of his narrative. In reality, Trump regularly refers to groups 'en masse' such as 'the Hispanics', 'the blacks' or 'the muslims.' It was in this precise fashion that he chose to refer to Mexican immigrants as 'criminals and rapists.' This is exactly the way that Hitler and the Third Reich characterised the Jewish people before the second world war. It is this rhetoric of division that is a real indicator of his racist credentials.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/
Trumps own company has twice been sued by the Justice department.In 1973, with Trump serving as President, his real estate management company was sued for discriminating against black and ethnic minority individuals looking to rent apartments. His company settled out of court to prevent a media storm building, but then just three years after that, the Justice Department sued the Trump Management Corporation again for allegedly discriminating against black applicants by telling them apartments weren’t available.
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/
He refused to disavow support from the KKK.In a CNN interview last year, Trump repeatedly passed on the opportunity to disavow the support from KKK leader David Duke. Duke has previously been quoted as saying that 'voting for any other candidate was really treason to your heritage' (sic), indicating that not only did an openly racist and violent organisation support Donald Trump, but that they did so with such a level of support as to call not voting for him 'treason'. What kind of politician, what kind of policies, elicits that level of support from the Klan other than patently racist ones? Trump then had the opportunity to disavow the KKK, but he claimed to have no knowledge of them or of David Duke; a deeply dishonest statement given that he had publicly gone on record in reference to the Klu Klux Klan.Trump's white supremicist fan club include the Daily Stormer, which is a Neo-nazi new site, as well as the 'National Policy Institute' who promote 'the heritage, identity and future of European white community'.
There are numerous other examples to examine, such as the fact that Trump was at the head of the 'truther movement' into the place of birth of Barak Obama, the first non-white president in history. Trump to this day claims that Obama is a Muslim and not an American at all, further proof of prejudice against black and non-white people.Or we could go into detail of the numerous times Trump has called for Black Lives Matter protesters to be physically beaten up at his rallies, or the time Trump called for mob justice against the 'Central Park 5'. (http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1838466.1403324800!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/trump21n-1-web.jpg?enlarged).
What this all ads up to is a profile of the man. The people he chooses to associate with, the things he says; they all paint a picture of who he is and how he views the world. Some people will argue that he is just a 'refreshing change' from political correctness, or that he just speaks his mind without a filter, and to a certain extent that may be true. What is also true, however, is that he is now seeking election on a platform based on those views. He is no longer a dissident voice from the sidelines, and we can no longer ignore the content of his words and actions.
Of all the numerous examples we have recorded that prove that Trump has a proclivity towards racist tendencies, one can only wonder what escapes the microphone behind closed doors. At best, Donald Trump is a political idiot, ostracising huge swathes of not only America but also the world, and at worst, he is a modern-day right wing supremacist; either way, he's a racist.
Trump has the constitutionally protected right to say the things he does, and even to run for office on that platform. There is nothing illegal about being a racist, nor anything in law that prevents a racist running for office. This is not about freedom of expression, nor about freedom to offend. Those are separate debates for another day.
I will now lay out a catalogue of examples to indicate why I think Donald trump is a racist.
One of the key indicators of how Donald Trump thinks about non-white groups is in the way he refers to them all the time as a monolithic block, as if they can all just be grouped into broad racial groups who think, feel and act the same way. Anyone who has seen memes such as this....
(cont)... will know that Trump has managed to capture the attention of those who are less than complimentary of his narrative. In reality, Trump regularly refers to groups 'en masse' such as 'the Hispanics', 'the blacks' or 'the muslims.' It was in this precise fashion that he chose to refer to Mexican immigrants as 'criminals and rapists.' This is exactly the way that Hitler and the Third Reich characterised the Jewish people before the second world war. It is this rhetoric of division that is a real indicator of his racist credentials.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/
Trumps own company has twice been sued by the Justice department.In 1973, with Trump serving as President, his real estate management company was sued for discriminating against black and ethnic minority individuals looking to rent apartments. His company settled out of court to prevent a media storm building, but then just three years after that, the Justice Department sued the Trump Management Corporation again for allegedly discriminating against black applicants by telling them apartments weren’t available.
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/
He refused to disavow support from the KKK.In a CNN interview last year, Trump repeatedly passed on the opportunity to disavow the support from KKK leader David Duke. Duke has previously been quoted as saying that 'voting for any other candidate was really treason to your heritage' (sic), indicating that not only did an openly racist and violent organisation support Donald Trump, but that they did so with such a level of support as to call not voting for him 'treason'. What kind of politician, what kind of policies, elicits that level of support from the Klan other than patently racist ones? Trump then had the opportunity to disavow the KKK, but he claimed to have no knowledge of them or of David Duke; a deeply dishonest statement given that he had publicly gone on record in reference to the Klu Klux Klan.Trump's white supremicist fan club include the Daily Stormer, which is a Neo-nazi new site, as well as the 'National Policy Institute' who promote 'the heritage, identity and future of European white community'.
There are numerous other examples to examine, such as the fact that Trump was at the head of the 'truther movement' into the place of birth of Barak Obama, the first non-white president in history. Trump to this day claims that Obama is a Muslim and not an American at all, further proof of prejudice against black and non-white people.Or we could go into detail of the numerous times Trump has called for Black Lives Matter protesters to be physically beaten up at his rallies, or the time Trump called for mob justice against the 'Central Park 5'. (http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1838466.1403324800!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/trump21n-1-web.jpg?enlarged).
What this all ads up to is a profile of the man. The people he chooses to associate with, the things he says; they all paint a picture of who he is and how he views the world. Some people will argue that he is just a 'refreshing change' from political correctness, or that he just speaks his mind without a filter, and to a certain extent that may be true. What is also true, however, is that he is now seeking election on a platform based on those views. He is no longer a dissident voice from the sidelines, and we can no longer ignore the content of his words and actions.
Of all the numerous examples we have recorded that prove that Trump has a proclivity towards racist tendencies, one can only wonder what escapes the microphone behind closed doors. At best, Donald Trump is a political idiot, ostracising huge swathes of not only America but also the world, and at worst, he is a modern-day right wing supremacist; either way, he's a racist.
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-04-06 02:29:03
| Speak Round
gavstone21 (CON) First I would like to establish that I am not necessarily aTrump supporter, but he is not a racist. Please do not judge this debate on your own opinion but on the actual debate. Incorrigible's definition of racism was right and I will follow that definition.
"It was in this precise fashion that he chose to refer to Mexican immigrants as 'criminals and rapists.'"
One thing I would like to say is that Mexican is not a race. FullDefinition ofMexican. 1 a : a native or inhabitant ofMexico b : a person ofMexican descent c southwest : a person of mixed Spanish and Indian descent. So, you are wrong in saying he was racist when he was talking about Mexicans. Also, it is a little narrow minded to think of Mexican as a race. Many skin colors reside in Mexico. In his opening speech he said " and some I assume are good people, but I speak to border guards and they tell us what we are getting". What do border guards do, well they defend the border from ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
Here is the definition- United States Border Patrol (USBP) is an American federal law enforcement agency. Its mission is to detect and prevent illegal aliens, terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, and prevent illegal trafficking of people and contraband.
Knowing this he is talking about illegal immigrants. He said some are good people. When he called some of them criminals and rapist (Knowing he called some good) he was right. "from theU.S. Sentencing Commission that found undocumented immigrants account for disturbingly high levels of violent crime. While they represent just 3.5% of the U.S. population, undocumented immigrants represented 7% of federal prison sentences following convictions on charges of sexual abuse, 9% of murders, 12% of assaults and 30% of kidnappings in 2013."(http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/16/voices-gomez-undocumented-immigrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/)
You cant use the lawsuits because Trump won those. The court had found no evidence of wrong doing. (Facts have no Feelings)
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html)
"He refused to disavow support from the KKK."
In the interview he said he was not going to condemn the KKK and others because he did not know what they are very well. It was smart of him to say that because what if the KKK was a humanitarian organization. By condemning them he would make himself look very bad. He also stated if he noticed anything wrong he would condemn them. Also, even if he did research the KKK and welcomed their support it would not necessarily make him racist. What if he liked them because they had similar political views or a great understanding of economics. That never happened though and he said nothing good or bad about them. Plus Trump said he did not know who David Duke was. He was not going to condemn a group he did not know about.
'"truther movement' into the place of birth of Barak Obama, the first non-white president in history"
First president Obama is half white. There are a lot of reasons to think Obama might not be a natural born citizen. Not only was his dad from a foreign country, but he lived in Indonesia. He was born in Hawaii which is not part of the U.S's mainland. Even if there were no reasons to think he was a natural born citizen, would it be racist. Based on your definition tell me how that is racist.
Racism1. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement,usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.2. A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.'
Also he is raising that question over Ted Cruz which, his skin color is white!
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-04-07 14:01:15
| Speak RoundIncorrigiblePerspective (PRO)Round Forfeited
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-04-09 14:02:01
| Speak Round