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Original Cold War: U.S.A. vs U.S.S.R.

(PRO)
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(CON)
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Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon (PRO)
According to a rule change agreed upon by me and my opponent, the starting date has been changed to January 21, 1992 AD.

On January 21, U.S. President George H.W. Bush delivers a "State of the World Address" in Brussels, Belgium. It outlines the dictated foreign policy of the United States and the NATO. The speech is watched by millions of viewers throughout the world on television.
The speech begins as following:

"To the General Secretary of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, to the leaders of democratic nations, and to members of the United States Congress...
I am here today to discuss the state of our world. As we all know, just a few years ago the leadership of the Second World realized that the Soviet model is unsustainable and contrary to the ideas of freedom and progress. Because of this, they initiated measures of reform, measures known as Perestroika and Glasnost. These reforms, initiated by former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, caused the peoples of the world to hope that the Soviet Union was on the eve of democracy, that it would renounce its evil ways which trample upon human lives and have cost millions of innocent lives. For the first time in this long and bitter Cold War, there was hope that the Evil Empire which my predecessor denounced would change.
Indeed, when the satellite states of the U.S.S.R. embraced democracy and tore off the shackles of communism, we all thought that it was only a matter of time before the Eastern Bloc ceased to exist entirely.
But then, last August, we watched in dismay as Soviet reactionaries seized control over the Soviet Union and put an end to the brief Soviet experimentation with freedom. Now we must swallow that bitter truth: the Soviet Union will not reform itself. It will continue to plague this world with its gross depravities and gospel of oppression unless we take hard action against it. Just to be clear, I am not advocating war against the Soviet Union. I desire to live as much as anyone else does. However, democratic nations must collectively adopt a tough stance against those who seek to bind the world in darkness. A golden opportunity knocks; while the Soviet Union is weak we must unite against Communism as we have never before, so that we may subdue the Red Menace and see peace on Earth, at long last. Peace on Earth. Thank you."

After he finished with this speech, he goes to meet with NATO representatives and those of newly formed European nations of the former Eastern Bloc, as well as those from certain NATO-aligned nations (such as South Korea and Japan).
There, in a meeting of which its contents are unknown to the outside world, Bush laid out his "master plan".

First, he tells representatives from newly formed European nations that if they join NATO, their independence will be secured against a possible future Soviet invasion of Eastern Europe. He tells them that in any case, they are not to make this offer public until the day that it becomes official.
Second, he announces that he has outlined a plan to have US Congress increase and extend spending for Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) research for Fiscal Year 1993, in exchange for increasing taxes for the wealthy. He states that when this proposal passes he will seek cooperation from Western Europe, Japan, and South Korea in developing and erecting a "missile shield" that will put an end to the Soviet nuclear threat and perhaps even make nuclear missiles obsolete. Under this plan, starting in 1993 a huge international effort to create SDI will take off, with the outlined goal of erecting a fully functional global "shield" against ICBMs and nuclear missiles in general by 2010.
Third, NATO member intelligence agencies would engage in a joint top-secret operation to create strong secession movements within the Soviet Union to liberate the Baltic States, Kazakhstan, the Caucasus, Ukraine, and the likes from Soviet control.
Fourth, a permanent NATO blockade of the Sea of Marmara would tightly control all traffic coming in from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean (or vice-versa). In exchange for their cooperation, the United States would give Turkey a generous weapons package. This would severely restrict the abilities of the Black Sea fleet to threaten Mediterranean nations.
Fifth, Yugoslavia and Albania would be given a "push" to cause their communist regimes to collapse.
Sixth, the United States would seek a "thaw" in relations with Cuba.
Seventh, a CIA operation to assassinate the key leaders of the Ba'athist regime and to strengthen Anti-Ba'athist groups in Iraq (namely the Kurds) would take place. The assassination attempt would spend 2 years in the planning stage, to strengthen the odds of its success.

And that was the plan. Now, what will the Soviet Union do in 1992? That is the question. That is, I await my opponent's response.

Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-12 15:40:26
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (CON)
After the Soviet coup in the August of 1991, the Soviet Union was put under temporary military jurisdiction. Soviet leader, Gennady Yanayev, gave full power over the Soviet Union and its military, which had fell back into the fold with little resistance, to Soviet Marshal Dmitry Yazov.  Realizing that the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact posed a threat to the USSR's volatile borders, which were now on high alert following increasing tensions with NATO, Yazov ordered a violent reoccupation of former Soviet military bases in the Baltic region, and ordered a blitz of 11 Soviet motorized rifle divisions into Poland, after raising several false flags along the border. The Polish army, much of which was composed of former PRP leadership, quickly capitulated as Soviet troops entered the country. The ill equipped troops of the Czech Republic and Slovakia launched a preeminent strike at the border, which Yazov used as a justification to invade, although it was widely believed he already had plans to invade the region anyways. 

In order to curve the ire of the international community, the minister of foreign affairs made a public statement detailing the 5 points of the Soviet Occupation in Eastern Europe.

1. The Soviet Army will be present in the occupied nations until they are stable enough to host elections. 
2. Following elections, the Soviet Army will withdraw all troops from Poland, the Czechoslovakia region, and the Baltic States. 
3. The Soviet Army would "propose" a security agreement known as MASE, or the Mutual Agreement on the Security of Europe, in the new transitional republics of  Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, and the Czechoslovakia. The Soviet Union would lead the alliance.
4. MASE would call for the formation of a regional defense force in Eastern Europe, where each member nation would have to donate a certain number of troops proportionate to the size of their military.
5. The Soviet Union would send  security technology from their military industry to run a counter-insurgency against "partisans" 

Many UN members remained skeptical of the Soviet Unions 5 points. A diplomat from France made a scene during the conference, when he vocally accused the Soviet Foreign Affairs Minister of creating MASE as a forefront for another permanent occupation in Europe.

Many Soviet leaders, fearing the repercussions if they were to be debased from power, began pressuring Yazov into decreasing tensions with the West. Yazov called a secret meeting in 1991 at Talinn among him and his deputies, including a few world leaders with close ties to the Soviet Union. At the meeting, Yazov proposed a series of top secret plans which would be known as the "Final Struggle," which detailed a grand scale war between the Soviet Union and NATO Allies, along with a comprehensive plan on economic recovery. The keypoints of the "Final Struggle" include...

1. The creation of an unofficial military pact between China, North Korea, Iran, Yugoslavia, South Yemen, Mongolia,  MASE, and the Ethiopian Derg.
  • In exchange for Chinese support, Yazov pledged military assistance for a future invasion in Taiwan, which Li Xiannian and his officials had been secretly planning for years.
  • In exchange for support from North Korea, the Soviet Union would  send advanced hardware and military equipment, including T-90 tanks and Su-34's, to the DPRK military.
  • In the event of a war between North and South Korea, the Soviet Union would have to veto any UN resolution to send aid to South Korea. 
  • In exchange for support from Iran, the Soviet Union would help build up the countries early nuclear program, and pledge military aid in case of a war with Iraq or Israel 
  • South Yemen, which was economically reliant on the Soviet Union, readily offered support. The SY president requested that the Soviet Union help hinder any attempt to reunify the nation under a non-socialist banner. 
  • Yugoslavia, which was slowly disintegrating, eagerly accepted an alliance with the USSR, and also expressed interest in joining MASE. They requested that the USSR help the Slavic military run a counter insurgency against guerilla's in Bosnia. 
  • The Ethiopian Derg, who offered the Soviet Union a lucrative base of operations in Africa and the Middle East, requested that the USSR help legitimize the power of the Ethiopian communist party, and station two divisions in the nation to discourage western intervention in their struggle against Eritrea.
  • Mongolia had no qualms about extending their alliance. Secretly Soviet and Mongolian leaders agreed to fortify the border between Xinjiang and Ulantabaar Province after the coup, which was unknown to Chinese intelligence.  

2.  Plotted Several Commie Schemes 
  • The Soviet Union drafted a plan with China to occupy  the Kuril Islands and establish an airbase and naval port if tensions with Japan intensified 
  • The Soviet Union and Yugoslavia would finance Albanian defectors to escalate their insurgency in Macedonia, as long as the new government would agree to institute a socialist government 
  • With the support of the Soviet Union, the PRC would build airbases and fortifications throughout the mostly desolate but contested Senaku Islands 
  • The Soviet Union would support the independence of Kurdistan (despite the disapproval of Iran), in hopes that it would make a border war with Turkey easier to win
  • In the event of the US sending tactical nuclear weapons to Turkey, a division of Soviet marines would land on Imrali as an act of "self defense," and build a navalbase. They also knew that there was a host of high value Kurdish POW's on Imrali which could be used to ignite another insurgency in Kurdistan.
  • The Soviet Union planned "Operation Snowstorm" to be enacted by 1994. Operation Snowstorm would involve a comprehensive plot to militarize the arctic circle and construct technologically advanced ports, airbases, and nuclear facilities in the cold icy landscape.

3. The Soviet Union would give Dagestan and Chechnya SSR status as a means of maintaining stability

4.  The Soviet Union would reduce their nuclear stockpiles in half. Reluctantly they agreed to station tactical nuclear weapons in Montenegro to recover from having to move their facilities back to the mainland after the dissolution of the Warsaw pact. Many of the nuclear weapons would be stripped and sold to Russian based corporations and Iran as a means of keeping the military industrial complex afloat, given the USSR was forced to greatly reduce the size of their military in 1989.

5. The Soviet Union would strip industrial and military equipment in Poland and the Baltic states to rebuild their economy and improve their new infrastructure networks. 

------------------------------------------
This is a debate, so you can add a little more background and action in the next round, but then we actually have to debate why our actions would succeed ;)



Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-12 19:47:05
| Speak Round
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon (PRO)
Crap. My opponent started in 1991. So, I'm basically going to have to edit my previous list of actions, to account for the actions which my opponent performed. Scratch my entire Round 1; this is my actual set of moves.

Okay, so...
My opponent re-invaded the former Warsaw Pact nations. He also established a Collective Security Pact of Communist states.

In response, I, President George H.W. Bush, establish the "Bush Doctrine", which states:
"Communism shall not expand further except through peaceful and democratic means. Any attempt to force communism on a nation with a majority that doesn't want Communism will be responded to with military force. The United States respects the legitimacy and sovereignty of any Communist regime which has the approval of the populace. The United States rejects the legitimacy of a Communist regime which rules over a populace that doesn't want Communism. The United States respects fair elections that result in the establishment of a Communist regime."

In accordance with this doctrine, I denounce the new Eastern European regimes established recently by Soviet military force as illegitimate, and as puppet States of the Soviet Union, as they were established without the consent of the peoples of Eastern Europe, seeing as how in the revolutions of the late 80s and early 90s prior to this they had rejected communism.
(Note: Seeing as how Eastern Germany was by the time of the 1991 Soviet Coup D'etat reunified with Western Germany, a NATO member, any prior attempt by my opponent to retake East Germany would be an illegal move, so such a move never happened; that is, as it stands currently East Germany is not under Communist rule.)

As a result, the CIA budget is expanded and CIA operatives are sent behind the Iron Curtain to secretly establish, train, and equip local Pro-Democracy partisan groups in states which had up until a short while ago been free from Communism.

Then, I address China. The following statement is made to their leaders:
"If the People's Republic of China does not withdraw from its policy of Collective Security with the Soviet Union, it will mean that Chinese trade with the West will be cut off. Seeing as how the PRC has transitioned to a more Democratic economic model, it knows that the Soviet economic model does not work as well as the Western economic model. If the PRC only has the trade-shy Communist world as its trading partners, nations which are and will in the future with little doubt experience slow economic growth compared to the West, the PRC will not achieve its full economic potential. Also, the Soviet military is considerably weaker than that of the United States. Also, while the United States acknowledges that Taiwan has a right to exist as a sovereign state, the United States does not and will not recognize the Government of Taiwan as the legitimate Government of China. The United States recognizes the Government of the People's Republic of China as the legitimate Government of China. Further peaceful trade between the PRC and the Communist World is fine, but there is to be no military alliance with them unless the PRC seeks to isolate itself from the West and to increase tensions with its democratic neighbors.
If China agrees to exit its military alliance with the Soviet Union, the United States will help protect the sovereignty of the People's Republic of China. The United States will consider any unprovoked attack on China to be an act of war against the United States and NATO, even if the aggressor is the Soviet Union or an ally of the United States."

With this declaration having been made, the likelihood that China would remain in the Collective Security Pact with the Soviet Union has decreased significantly.
Also, United States Intelligence reveals to the Chinese Government the devious Soviet negotiations with the Mongolians to fortify the Mongolia-Xinjiang border, which I hope will hurt relations between the People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union.

To help assure South Korea against a North Korean invasion, nuclear missiles are placed in South Korea, which the United States assures the PRC will not be used against China.
Also, the United States addresses the South Korean Government encouraging them to increase their military budget to counter North Korea.

Japanese control over the Senkaku Islands is confirmed by the United States. However, I get Japan to agree to permit Chinese military activities in Senkaku which are not an immediate threat to Japan and do not interfere with Japanese control over the islands. Also, the United States encourages the Japanese Government to acknowledge and apologize for its WWII-era and Sino-Japanese War era crimes against the Chinese people. A few Liberal politicians do so, which slightly helps relations between China and Japan. Of course, we do not go so far as to request that the Japanese Government make restitution to the PRC, because that likely wouldn't happen.

Nuclear missiles capable of hitting Tehran are placed in Israel to deter Iran from attempting to invade or fire nuclear missiles at Israel. However, to thaw relations with Iran, a trade agreement with Iran is passed in the United States Congress. Also, the United States again denounces Iran's enemy, Ba'athist Iraq, for its refusal to give up its chemical weapons program, an ultimately meaningless but diplomatically helpful move.
In an almost contradictory move, the United States affirms the right to self-determination of Iraqi kurds but denounces the Kurdish nationalists of Turkey as terrorists. The United States takes a neutral stance on Kurds in Iran. As before, the CIA training and arming of Kurdish rebels in Northern Iraq would take place, as does the planning of a future assassination of Saddam Hussein. Also, it condemns

As before, in early 1992 the United States and NATO leaders agree upon the creation of an international SDI research and development effort to erect a fully functional missile shield by 2010.

The U.S. Army also begins a mission in Macedonia to train local soldiers and provide the Macedonian military with Western equipment. This mission is scheduled to continue until mid-1993. Also, the United States requests that Greek and Turkish soldiers be sent to Macedonian to serve in a counter-insurgency rule.

As before, the Naval Blockade of the Sea of Marmara would take place to limit the activities of the Soviet Black Sea fleet.

In Yugoslavia, Croatian and Bosnian rebels are trained and armed by the CIA to achieve their independence.

In the United States, a reverse of tax cuts for the rich and an overall increase in taxes is implemented to help finance this increase in military operations, with the knowledge that my attempts to get re-elected are made increasingly slim by these efforts.

(Later, in 1994, in response to increased Soviet presence in the Arctic, several measures are taken in response. Increased US army naval presence in northern Alaska, increased NATO naval presence in Nunavut, and the stationing of soldiers, ships, and missiles in Greenland and Svalbard are implemented so that NATO has a much greater military presence in the Arctic and it is able to keep an eye on Russian activities to make sure they don't do anything too bad up there; also, the United States, Canada, Norway, and Denmark increase their claims to Arctic territory for the purpose of deterring Russian militarization there.)

Your move.

Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-16 06:48:08
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (CON)
I was under the impression that Pro was not aware of everything that was spoken of in the secret conference. No worries. We'll just pretend like only the actions that could apply to what happens in the argument are relevant. 

Chinese President calls the Soviet Premier an Idiot (January 23rd, 1992)
The leader of the USSR was called an idiot by the Chinese president for forgetting that the Soviet Union already controlled the Kuril Islands, and that South Yemen no longer existed. What a dunce. The only question is, who was that guy claiming to be the President of South Yemen? 

USSR replaces the T-80u with the T-90 MBT (January 26th, 1992) 






Elections commence in the Eastern Bloc
(January 28th, 1992) 
The nations of Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia go to the polls, with socialist parties predicted to win over a majority  in a landslide. International critics accuse the elections of being rigged and not to par with modern day election systems. 

Moldova breaks away from the USSR (February 14th, 1992) 
During the Coup attempt in 1991, former veterans of the disbanded 86th Guard Motorized Rifles helped lead a takeover against loyalists in Moldova. In 1992, fighting spilled over into Romania after leader Ion Illescu granted asylum to Gorbachev loyalists who fled the country. The leader of the rogue division in Moldova requested the restoration of the 86th Guard Motorized Rifles and that the government would intimidate Romania into releasing the loyalists into Soviet custody.  Yazov bluntly turned them down.

Outraged, the rogue army led a coup of the Moldovan SSR and declared it to be a newly independent nation. Soviet Troops  stationed in Odessa were moved to the breakaway republic of Transnistra, where Igor Smirnov granted them passage without resistance. Romania used the opportunity to take back their former territory in Moldova before Soviet troops would have a chance to respond. The Romanian army quickly defeated the rogue rifles division, and annexed the Moldovan SSR.

Conflict: Romania and the Soviet Union go to war (March 17th, 1992) 
Ilescu's gambit was reliant on support from the Western powers. Yazov, fearing the consequences of Romania receiving recognition as the legitimate owners of Moldova, decided to invade the territory prematurely. On March 17th, 1992, the Soviet Union sent the 180th motorized rifles into Moldova. After a couple brief skirmishes along the border, Illescu grants permission to Dumitru Cioflina to retreat into the Romanian mainland. 

The Soviet Union, although victorious in Moldova, decided that the current government of Romania must be overthrown for the future interests of the state. Yazov ordered the 180th motorized rifles to engage Romanian troops in low intensity warfare alongside the border. After a month of fighting, Dumitru Cioflina, convinced that his northern borders were secure and that he needed to put a quick end to the Soviet resistance coming out of Moldova, had 80% of his troops engaged on the Soviet-Romanian border. Yazov, who had anticipated this action, sent the 28th Guards Motorized Rifles to break through the northern quadrant of the Romanian line of defense and encircle their forces. Promising Magyar lands in Transylvania and Ukraine to Hungary for support in Romania and joining MASE (as the only democratic nation), elements of the Hungarian Southern Command breached the lightly guarded Hungarian-Romanian border, paving the way for the Soviet 254th Rifles to make a blitz to Bucharest. The infamous Black Marines, which had historically been stationed in Sevastopol, were elsewhere at the time of the invasion, and were not present in the battle. The Black Sea Flotilla did manage to capture the port of Constanzia, allowing the Soviet Navy to bomb Bucharest and deny the Romanians sea exfiltration to Turkey or Bulgaria. 

The Final stage of the invasion called for the Yugoslavia First Army to penetrate the more moderately defended border crossing at Jimbolia, and begin a bombing campaign along the supply lines stemming from Bulgaria to Galati. During this final offensive, an airborne battalion of 600 transnistrian soldiers supplied by the Soviet military, launched a massive halodrop on Brasov, which along with Sibiu, was the last line of defense that the Romanian armed forces had established to prevent the 254th Motorized Rifles from reaching Bucharest. An organization known as the Movement for a New Romania (MFNR) also helped capture several small villages and rural communities which were being held by partisians ahead of the advancing MASE forces. 

By April 3rd, Bucharest was under siege and the Romanian parliament had capitulated after a fierce urban battle. Illescau and Cioflina were burned alive before being decapitated outside Giurgiu by communist sympathizers, after they made an attempt to cross over the Bulgarian border.   Minister of defense Nicolae Spirua called for NATO assistance in aiding what was left of the Romanian army take back the country. The 12,000 troops that were left of the Romanian army had already fled to Sofia, where they were reorganizing.

Yazov, who was eager to prevent NATO intervention in Ukraine, immediately declared a new socialist government based in Iasi, which was composed of party leaders from the MFRN. 10,000 captured Romanian POW's were given back their weapons after agreeing to serve in the new Romanian army.  Most of Romania was under complete MASE control, with MASE forces experiencing light casualties. 

Map


MASE Coalition
  • Soviet Union
  • Hungary 
  • Yugoslavia  
  • People's Republic of Romania 
  • Transnistria 
  • MFNR (Movement for a New Romania) 

Defenders
  • Romania 
  • Bulgaria (auxiliary and logistical support) 

Order of Battle (MASE)
  • 180th Motorized Rifles Division (Soviet Union)
  • 23rd Motorized Rifles Division (Soviet Union)
  • 254th Rifles Division (Soviet Union)
  • Voyenno Vozdushnye (20 Yak-38's, 10 Su-25's, 8 Su-34's) (Soviet Union)
  • Black Sea Flotilla (Soviet Union)
  • 5th Hungarian Army (Hungary)
  • First Army (Yugoslavia) 
  • 1st Airborne Battalion (Transinistria) 

Order of Battle (Romania)
  • 1st Infantry Division (Romania) 
  • 4th Infantry Division (Romania)
  • Bucharest Home Defense Garrison (Romania) 
  • 110th Logistics Regiment (Bulgaria)
  • 4th Artillery Regiment (Bulgaria) 
  • 68th Special Forces Brigade (Bulgaria) 

Conflict: Macedonian Civil War (May 23rd, 1992)
Albania had always been the pariah of the international community. Hoxha's decision to side with China in the communist schism, his betrayal of the warsaw pact, and extremely atheist  totalitarian government made him a rival to both the Western and Eastern powers. After an escalation of violence between ethnic Albanians and Macedonians in the newly indepedent state of Macedonia, Ramiz Alia made another controversial decision to send the nations air force to support the Albanian separatist rebellion. The weak and disorganized Macedonian militia had no form of defense against the organized and well armed rebels, although a couple of US department of defense goodies helped slow down the rebels significantly.. Only a year a go they were fighting a low intensity guerilla war against the forces of Yugoslavia. On May 23rd, after 12 days of fighting outside Skopje, Albanian militants aided by Chinese special forces took over the capital. The parliament capitulated and fled, just as the first Turkish training and auxiliary troops landed in Kumanovo. Greek troops had refused to participate unless Macedonia changed its name, which Macedonians were unwilling to do.

On May 25th, during a peace conference organized by the USSR, the Albanian separatists proposed a peace treaty with the Macedonian president and a couple Macedonian officers. NATO was invited to the conferences on Macedonia's request.

- Macedonia will cede all land from Tetovo to Lake Oridskio Ezreo to the Macedonian-Albanian Resistance. 
- A twelve year non-aggression pact 
- A demilitarized zone along the Suva Gora gap seperating Tetovo and Skopje 
- Macedonian recognition of Sheteti Shqiptar, or the State of the Albanians 
- Albanian recognition of Macedonia 
- Both countries will agree to host no foreign troops within their borders 

Public opinion of the peace agreement was divided among Macedonians. For some, the peace agreement was incredibly fair considering the current circumstances of the Albanian army. For others, the peace agreement called for to much territory, and the thought of losing Tetovo,  one of the few cities actually in Macedonia, was frightening. Macedonia had a choice to make. She could cede to the rebels demand and have peace for another 12 years, or risk a long and bloody war going up against a well armed rebellion and Albanian armor. One thing was for certain. Any attempt at retaking Skopje through military means would require massive foreign support. With NATO unable to offer support due to Greece's complaints, Macedonia had to look elsewhere for help. Perhaps an individual member, like the United States, would be willing to give the extradited government assistance? 

Map


Seperatist Forces 
  • Sheteti Sqipitar
  • People's Republic of China
  • People's Socialist Republic of Albania 
  • Movement for an Albanian State in Macedonia
  • Soviet Union (Financial Support)

Government Forces
  • Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
  • Turkey 
  • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Financial Support)

Order of Battle (Separatists)
  • Sheteti Shiqipitar Partisans (Sheteti Shiqipitar) 
  • Sheteti Shiqipitar Tank Division (Around 60 retired WW2 tanks and 5 Type 59's) (Sheteti Shiqipitar)
  • Forca Ajrore Shqiptare (2 Chenjdu J-7's, 12 Harbin Z-5's) (Albania) 
  • Lian Jeng Special Operations Group (China)

Order of Battle (Government)
  • Skopje Home Defense Garrison (Macedonia)
  • First Infantry Division (Macedonia) 
  • Macedonian Partisans (Macedonia) 
  • Turkish Auxiliary and Training Group (Turkey)

Soviet Escort Defies Blockade (August 14th, 1993)
The Soviet Union had little to fear from the NATO blockade on the Sea of Mamara. Most of their foreign trade went through the ports at St Petersburg, Kalingrad, and Vladivostok. Yet Politburo leaders were worried that a show of weakness may lead to future blockades outside the black sea. On August 14th, 1993, the Black Sea Flotilla was reported to have been mobilized by NATO intelligence. Yazov had planned over the course of a year Operation Reckoning with his top Admirals. Yazov had warned NATO two months before  that the Sea of Mamara was considered international waters, and that the Soviet navy would be willing to use any means necessary to restore "free" trade. 

On August 15th, a soviet escort defies the NATO blockade by pushing right past the Turkish-Greek Fleet stationed in front of the Bosporus. Soviet state media was actively providing coverage for the event as it happened. The small Soviet escort glided slowly past the Turkish coastal fortifications. On board the escort ships were dozens of civilians, waving at the crowds which had gathered along the straight. The leading NATO admiral in the region had expected the Soviet escort to be stopped at the first checkpoint, but to his surprise, the first checkpoint opened for the escort. Then the second. The Soviets had obviously planned this well ahead of time, for all three checkpoints along the Straight had opened for the escort.

NATO had to make a decision, and fast. They could shoot the escort down before it could continue making a mockery of the blockade, but they would risk an all out retaliation from the Soviets, who were actively waiting for an excuse to strike at the blockading navies. Not only that, but the media shitstorm that would ensue from killing the civilians aboard the ships would also have its consequences.



Operation Arctic Storm (January 1st, 1994) 
The Soviets laughed at the US and their feeble attempt to control the situation in the arctic. The USSR had half of the artic circle under defacto control, with major cities lining the Northern Permafrost of Russia. In the past, there was no incentive to build a ship that could brave the Artic, but Yazov in 1992 funded research to modify the Kara class cruiser and Kiev class aircraft carrier to function well in the Artic. Research completed in 1993, and production of the new Franz Josef Class Floating Fortress commenced soon after. 

The Franz Josef class was first titled as the Barents class, as it was originally created with the idea of modifying the Kara class into becoming an Icebreaking Cruiser Ship. Overtime, developments during the research gave scientists the idea to build a permanent artificial Naval Base in the center of the Arctic Ocean. The only problem was that no one had ever created a permanent artificial naval base, especially not in the Arctic Ocean.

The Franz Josef Class Floating Fortress's development was slated to be finished by 1996, although it would require the work of millions of laborers. The Soviet Union scuttled most of the Eastern Fleet in order to pay migrant workers to begin development on the Artic Fleet and Franz Josef Capitol Ship. The Soviets figured that having unrestricted access to the untouched resources of the Arctic Circle would pay for the bases development a 100 times over.

The Franz Josef would quadruple as an aircraft carrier, a supply depot, a port for submarines and supply ships, and would host a permanent detachment of Naval marines. The Franz Josef would be equipped with numerous AA guns and AS guns, but its main source of power was the massive flotilla of nuclear submarines it could deploy at any moment. 

The construction was known by the military as Operation Arctic Storm.



North Korean Troops Burn Ulleung-Do (April 19th, 1994) 
North Korea had tried to take Uleng-Do multiple times after the Korean War. Never had they been supported by Russian T-90 tanks and Alligator Class landing ships. Usually it is the responsibility of the South Korean coast guard to protect Ulleng-do, but they were on a resupply mission during the time of the strike. Supported by the brute that was the North Korean Nanjin class ship, the Korean People's Navy were able to soften up the island with barrages of cannon fire. 500 Korean Marines, 2 T-90's donated by the Soviet Union, and Special Helicopter Regiment landed on the island off of two Alligator class landing ships, also donated by the Soviet Union. The Communications Tower and the few Coastal Fortifications on the island were taken out by Airborne Helicopter Units. 





Although uncommon procedure for defending against an amphibious assault, the ROK Garrison leader decided to pull back to the city of Dodong and engage in defensive urban combat until the South Korean Coast Guard could respond. Knowing that the coast guard would be ill prepared to go up against a Heavy Cruiser, the ROK commander decided he needed to use a new set of tactics. He sent the two modern M1A1 tanks under his command up to Nari Dong ridge, where they would be able to overlook the landing zone at Song Got Bong, where the North Koreans were setting up a hastily assembled base. Their mission was to fire down on the landing craft, which would force the Nanjin cruiser to dock at Dadong to manually supply the rest of the marines. 

The M1A1 squad successfully took out the landing craft. The plan went so well that not only did the tanks escape, but the Nanjin did as expected and circled around the island towards Dodong. The garrison had quickly set up sea mines and coastal weapons around the cape. The DPRK had sent its marines off the beach to take the city to secure the docking of the Nanjin. The Garrison commander knew that he had sealed the fate of him and his men. They would all die holding out in Dodong. The 200 man force would stand no chance against the Nanjin and the 300 or so marines who would storm out from the mountains towards the city, but they had to try. They had to take out that ship before the coast guard arrived, or the coastal patrol would be obliterated, along with any chances of stopping a full occupation of Ulleung-Do



The Marines entered the village about the same time as the Nanjin entered the cape. The garrison unleashed their ambush upon the Nanjin class cruiser. A minute into their attack, the ship retaliated and began firing upon the city. Dodong was being destroyed. The T-90's buzzed through the main road trampling over the barricades and destroying the M1A1's sent to guard the passage. The marines didn't enter the village, instead choosing to set up mortars upon the hillside and rain down fire on the garrison. After a half hour of fighting, Ulleung-Do was obliterated, along with anyone in it. The Nanjin had taken moderate damages, but was still operational. 

North Korea didn't want to risk a naval attack with a damaged cruiser, so they made a full withdraw from the island. Not after murdering, raping, destroying, and enslaving anyone or anything they encountered . The invasion of Ulleung-do was considered a failure, but the execution of the marines and the devastation they wrought on the city was enough to popularize the Kim regime on the home front, and put fear back into the hearts of Koreans.

The Kim regime made it abundantly clear. Tactical nuclear weapons or not, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea was ready for war

Soviet Union Encourages China (November 25th, 1992) 
Knowing that China was being pressured into cutting relations with the Soviet Union,  Politburo leaders began a massive campaign to re-encourage China to not sway far from Communism. Soviet propagandists toured the country and met with Communist party leaders and presented convincing cases of why they shouldn't cede into US demands. 

One of the highlights of the soviet argument was that the west would never actually cut off trade  with China. It would put both China and the United States in financial Ruin. Following America's series of economic deals with China, there would never be a worse time to cut off trade. It would put an end to 10,000's of US jobs, as well as dozens of start up companies eager to take advantage of Asian markets. 

Yazov was 100% certain that the US was bluffing. The US had a reputation for bluffing throughout the cold war. Why should this be any different? Yazov gave the capitalists a week before their greed drove them back into the Communist fold. Yazov was so sure that the plan would be successful, that he offered China a huge line of credit for any money lost if a withdraw of trade were to ever take place. 

Soviet Union Demilitarizes the Mongolian Border (December 13th, 1992)
Following the reveal of US intelligence on the Mongolian modern day great wall to China, the Soviet Union orders its soldiers to withdraw to their bases in Ulantabaar. The Mongolian People's Republic refuses to dismantle the line of fortifications, which they claimed were a legitimate form of civil defense. 

"We weren't in opposition to the wall China built to prevent us from getting in!" -  President Ochirbat exclaimed. 
Obviously walls were a sore subject for the Soviet Union, so they abstained from the debate. 

Soviets respond to US-Iran Relations (June 7th, 1992)
Although Iran responded shockingly well to the new trade agreement made between them and the United States, the Ayatollah was outraged that the United States denounced Iraq for having chemical weapons the CIA gave them to begin with. His anger was publicized to every Western TV screen. You have the Soviet state media to thank for that.

Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the Soviet Union finalize a Coalition Agreement for a future war with Israel (September 4th 1995) 
Most of the Middle East does not recognize the State of Israel. Many of Israel's neighbors actively seek to destroy the tiny nation of Jewish infidels. Iran, whose new friendship with the Soviet Union strengthened the regimes resolve to finish the Israelis, had spent years creating a war pact with its neighbors. The coalition pact was presented at an International UN conference. The Shiite members of the coalition would be led by Iran, while the Sunni members of the coalition would be led by Saudi Arabia. The DPRK and The Soviet Union would form a task force stationed in Iran to aid the coalition.  Its members include...
  • Algeria (Sunni)
  • Azerbaijan (Shiite) 
  • Bahrain (Shiite) 
  • Djibouti (Sunni)
  • Indonesia (Sunni)
  • Iraq (Shiite)
  • North Korea (Non-Muslim) 
  • Kuwait (Sunni)
  • Lebanon (Sunni)
  • Libya (Sunni)
  • Malaysia (Sunni)
  • Niger (Sunni)
  • Oman (Ibadi) (Non-Combat Support) 
  • Pakistan (Sunni)
  • Qatar (Sunni)
  • Saudi Arabia (Sunni)
  • Somalia (Sunni)
  • Soviet Union (Non-Muslim)
  • Sudan (Sunni)
  • Syria (Sunni)
  • United Arab Emirates (Sunni)
  • Yemen (Sunni)

After finalizing the coalition, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the Soviet Union sent a letter of demands to Israel, offering a 20 year peace if all conditions were met
  • The creation of a Palestinian state by February of 1996
  • Withdrawal of all troops from Golan Heights
  • Military access to the members of the Coalition 
  • Revoke any reference to Israel being a Jewish state from the code of law 
  • Ban of the Zionist flag and replacing it with an Arab influenced design
  • Destruction of all nuclear weapons 
  • Disarmament of all heavy weapons 10 km from Israels borders
  • Issue a statement of responsibility for the hardships endured by Muslim nations for the creation of a Jewish state 


















Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-23 02:09:17
| Speak Round
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon (PRO)
Macedonian Crisis, 1992

May 24, 1992
President Bush warns Ramiz Alia, leader of Albania, to cease all aid to the Albanian rebels in Macedonia. He warns him to have withdrawn all military aid and troops from Macedonia by May 30, Bush declares the Albanian rebels to be terrorists and the Macedonian Government to be legitimate.
In hopes of American intervention, final negotiations with the Albanians is rescheduled for one week by the Macedonian Government, to May 31.

May 30, 1992
In a rare move of cooperation between a communist state and the West, Yugoslavia consented to have 60,000 American troops temporarily stationed in Yugoslavia (with the promise that they'll have been removed by August 15), as well as aircraft. From May 25 to May 30, a huge amount of troops and equipment were transferred to Yugoslavia.
On May 30, U.S. Forces entered Macedonia in an attempt to restore control to the Macedonian Government.
Also, at 8:00 PM Central European Time 24 B-52 bombers, with the help of radar jamming measures done by American troops within Yugoslavia, descend upon Tirana and drop roughly a thousand conventional bombs.

By June 8, Albanian aid to the rebels in Macedonia mostly ceased (largely due to the NATO threat of a naval seizure of control over Albanian waters to prevent their maritime trade), and over 80% of the country was in the hands of the Macedonian Government.
On June 17, the situation was declared "stable" by the Macedonian Government, which had regained control over virtually all of Macedonia with the help of American forces.
On May 28 the U.S. Government had made a secret deal with the Macedonian Government. According to this deal, Macedonia would join NATO. Not only would this be sufficient "payment" for saving Macedonia's national pride and preventing their loss of territory, but it'd also keep Macedonia safe from foreign threat, seeing as how it's pretty rare (more like, it never happens) to see a NATO nation get invaded.

June 21, 1992
Macedonia joins NATO.
Also, on June 29, the U.S. Government convinces Macedonia and Albania to sign an agreement allowing for the relocation of ethnic Albanians who don't like it in Macedonia. Upon relocation to Albania they would be given a job and some start-up cash. This joint program was set to expire in 2002.
This program would both rid Macedonia of its most troublesome citizens but also slightly increase Albania's population.

The last American soldier withdrew from Yugoslavia on July 13; from then on a fair number of American troops would instead be stationed in Macedonia, as part of the agreement with their Government.

1992 US Presidential Election
In the 1992 Presidential Election, incumbent George Bush was defeated by Democratic Nominee William "Bill" Clinton, for a number of reasons. George Bush was blamed for the sudden escalation of tensions with the Soviet Union, and he was seen as a liar for reneging on his famous 1988 campaign promise to not raise taxes.

George Bush was not about to let go of power, however. He couldn't and wouldn't blatantly violate the Constitution, so he came up with another plan instead. As one of his last decisions as President, appointed himself Director of Central Intelligence (firing Robert Gates), a decision that would be made effective upon him no longer being President. Sure enough, he waved goodbye to the White House and went straight to the CIA. He had previously been director of this agency, so the job was no challenge for him.

When Bill Clinton stepped into the White House, he decided that he would soon fire Bush and appoint someone else.
Upon hearing this, Bush put his plan into action. Under his orders the CIA hired a particularly attractive woman and sent her to the White House. She quickly became Bill's mistress and she convinced him to not fire Bush. From then on, through the use of sending Bill mistresses and getting them to persuade Bill's opinions, George Bush was able to control the Government's foreign policy decisions.

December 1992
In response to China's refusal to withdraw from the Soviet-established collective security pact, George Bush is left with a dilemma. If he cuts off economic ties with China, it'll harm the U.S. economy. If he doesn't, it'll weaken American credibility.
Weighing the options, Bush decides to go ahead with it. He orchestras a tariff on goods imported from the People's Republic of China which comprises 100% of the value of said good. This essentially severs economic ties with the PRC; Bush hopes that at some future date they can be restored. In the meantime, Bush attempts to compensate by signing several trade deals with India, Brazil, and South Africa. Indeed; it's a busy December.

August 1993
The Sea of Marmara naval blockade turned out to be one of Bush's biggest foreign policy failures, and it made him an object of ridicule for a time.

January 5, 1994
Manfred Worner, General Secretary of NATO, issued a statement saying that if the Soviet intrusions upon territorial holdings of NATO members would not be tolerated, though they would be allowed to exploit the resources contained within their own waters. Trying to seize a NATO nation's territory through the use of military force would be interpreted as an act of war against that country and, as a result of its collective security provision, against the entirety of NATO itself.

Also, like I stated before, NATO would rely upon its defense network in the Arctic to ensure the Soviets don't violate international law or try to seize control of the Arctic.

April, 1994
The South Korean military extensively photographs the aftermath of Ulleung-Do, including the hundreds (if not thousands) of dead bodies, soldier and civilian alike. On April 27, 1994, South Korean President Kim Young-sam personally makes a presentation to the UN, displaying evidence of the massacre and footage of the countless Korean corpses of those who died in the incident which would be known to history as the 1994 Ulleung-Do Massacre. He also shows the evidence that North Korea was the perpetrator. This evidence included corpses left behind of soldiers of "Mongoloid" ethnicity dressed in North Korean uniforms, carrying weapons used by the Korean People's Army. One eyewitness who survived the massacre, a North Korean defector now living in South Korea, stated that the dialect of Korean that he heard used is "definitely" that of North Koreans rather than South Koreans. One survivor, who was a South Korean soldier, said that he definitely saw a Najin-class vessel. According to another survivor, a South Korean soldier as well, there was at least one T-90 tank at the battle; he could positively identify it as a T-90 because he had an interest in tanks and often studied material on them, as well as keeping up with the latest news on them.
Also, several cameras recovered caught footage of a T-90 tank.
The only logical conclusion was that the North Koreans were the perpetrators, and that they were assisted by the Soviets, seeing as how they wouldn't have a T-90 otherwise.
Then, Clinton took the stage and, reciting a speech prepared by Bush, called upon the world to unite together to form a coalition against North Korea, in the same manner as was done against Ba'athist Iraq during its Invasion of Kuwait.

May 18, 1994
38 countries led by the United States, as part of a coalition effort, invade North Korea in a military operation known as "Operation Bowl Judgment". Over 2 million coalition soldiers directly participate. Also, millions of tons of food are prepared in order to relieve the North Korean civilians of famine.
The attack begins at 9:20 PM Korea Standard Time with a massive radar jamming and electronic interference effort, with tens of thousands of bombs then being dropped to disable North Korean electricity, communication by means of telephone or telegraph, and strategic military positions. In the East, the Korean People's Navy is attacked by an overwhelming force and marines over 100,000 marines and special force offices from coalition nations move to secure North Korean coastal cities and towns in order to place large forces there and attack North Korea from both the South and East. Then, roads in southern North Korea are stormed by tanks and army transports so that transportation in southern North Korea is under the control of the coalition. Thus, North Korean forces in different areas are cut off from each other. From there, North Korean transportation and communication is cut off increasingly going from south to north and from east to west. Naturally, the last pockets of resistance would be in northwestern Korea, which is receiving military assistance from China (despite U.S. assurances that this invasion will not be used to increase US military presence in that region over the long term). However, because such a massive coalition is active against North Korea the PLA does not take direct military action against the Coalition, nor does it take serious efforts to undermine the coalition due to the risk of repercussions against China.

May 29, 1994
The North Korean Government has collapsed and the Kim family has gone into hiding. Tons of aid pour into North Korea.
The Provisional Government of North Korea has been established; according to the occupation plan, in early 1995 the number of coalition troops in North Korea will be reduced to approximately 1.5 million. In early 1996 the number of coalition troops in North Korea will be reduced to 1 million. In 1998 Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea (and perhaps China, if they're willing to participate) will assume control over the occupation until 2000, whenever South Korea will assume sole control over Korea and unification of Korea will be made official.

July 17, 1994
In a successful U.S. operation to forcibly broadcast a message over Soviet airwaves, a CIA spokesperson speaking in Russian announcers that any person who can deliver a T-90 tank to the West will be granted asylum and eventual citizenship in the United States, as well as 5 million dollars.

September 10, 1995
The United States, in response to the establishment of an anti-Israel Arab Coalition, places more nuclear missiles in Israel, raising the total number to 450 nuclear missiles.
Also, the U.S. Army has every Israeli citizen who is 13 years old or older (excluding residents of the Palestinian Territories). Also, a gun is provided to every citizen who undergoes this training. The training mission is completed on January 14, 1996.

On November 3, a bomb mysteriously  goes off in a Sunni mosque in Iran. The attack is linked to anti-Sunni radicals.
On November 14, a car bomb mysteriously goes off in a Shi'ite majority neighborhood in Saudi Arabia. The attack is linked to anti-Shi'ite radicals.
Following these two incidents, tensions rise between Sunnis and Shi'ites in the Middle East.

February 4, 1996
In an effort to ease tensions between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, the U.S. ends its support for pro-democracy partisans within the Iron Curtain (seeing as how it never accomplished much anyway), and it also signs a deal with the Soviet Union to allow thousands of Soviet students each year to attend Western colleges, which are on average of higher quality than Soviet colleges.

Done.

Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-26 17:43:13
| Speak Round


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BlackflagBlackflag
I'll find a place to put them when I get the chance. We should do this as a group game though, it was fun
Posted 2015-06-03 07:03:53
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Heh. I stayed up until 12:48 AM or so waiting for you to post. Did you have anything that you were about to post? What moves did you have planned?
Posted 2015-06-03 04:19:38
BlackflagBlackflag
I know, I fell asleep before I could submit '_'
Posted 2015-06-02 22:29:12
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
...Really?
Posted 2015-06-02 17:47:34
BlackflagBlackflag
Thanks
Posted 2015-06-02 07:28:43
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
10 hours 24 minutes.
Posted 2015-06-02 07:19:13
BlackflagBlackflag
@swag how much time is left?
Posted 2015-06-02 06:53:00
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
And then, Bush did begin training his son to become the next President, for there are always two: master and apprentice...
Posted 2015-05-27 08:51:17
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
*every citizen be trained for combat.
Posted 2015-05-27 03:58:33
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Ah. Sorry. Your repeat of an earlier post came off as a little strange. Can you provide a link to the nuclear mapping Site in question?
Posted 2015-05-23 11:16:28
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Uh...are you currently having a stroke or something?
Posted 2015-05-23 11:12:59
BlackflagBlackflag
There are two nuclear mapping sites I know of which you can play around with.
Posted 2015-05-23 11:12:33
BlackflagBlackflag
My bad, the Tsar Bomba dropped on South Korea would result in 20 million casualties
Posted 2015-05-23 11:11:25
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
By the way, where do you get your information on how many people a specific nuclear bomb would kill?
Posted 2015-05-23 11:04:38
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Okay then, just a normal invasion of the DPRK at most?
Posted 2015-05-23 11:02:30
BlackflagBlackflag
My bad, the Tsar Bomba dropped on South Korea would result in 20 million casualties
Posted 2015-05-23 08:56:38
BlackflagBlackflag
NVM, a B83 dropped on North Korea would kill 1,200,000 people and injure another million.

The Soviet Tsar Bomba dropped on North Korea would kill 12,000,000 million people and critically injure another 9 million. There goes half the populations of South Korea, and here comes the DPRK ready to reap the fallout.
Posted 2015-05-23 08:36:32
BlackflagBlackflag
It would be cool if we only resort to using scud missions or at most tactical nuclear weapons. The idea of dropping a gravity bomb on Pyongyang and killing millions of people is insane.
Posted 2015-05-23 08:34:24
BlackflagBlackflag
Hold up, resorting to nuclear warfare is going to far, and breaks the spirit of cold war proxy conflict.
Posted 2015-05-23 08:27:36
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Unfortunately, I'd have to wait 3 years.
Well, at least I might be able to use the North Korean famine to my advantage.
Posted 2015-05-23 07:32:08
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Actually, I was gonna jam DRPK's radar and then send in a B-2 Spirit at night to drop a B83 on Pyongyang.
Posted 2015-05-23 07:29:38
BlackflagBlackflag
Let me guess, you were going to try to bomb the Franz Josef :)
The Soviet Union sees that as an act of war my friend. Afterall, we do own the arctic :P
Posted 2015-05-23 06:58:00
BlackflagBlackflag
Let me guess, you were going to try to bomb the Franz Josef :)
The Soviet Union sees that as an act of war my friend. Afterall, we do own the arctic :P
Posted 2015-05-23 06:57:50
BlackflagBlackflag
Let me guess, you were going to try to bomb the Franz Josef :)
The Soviet Union sees that as an act of war my friend. Afterall, we do own the arcti :P
Posted 2015-05-23 06:57:41
BlackflagBlackflag
BTW, I was kind of going off of the assumption that the Soviet Union's communist neighbors also didn't fall during 1991-1992 since realistically their existence was tied to that of the Politburo which controlled their regimes. That is why I had nations like Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, The Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary as being free of Stalinism, while other nations such as Albania, Yugoslavia, and Mongolia whose governments all fell by 1992 as still being allies of the Soviet Union.

Posted 2015-05-23 06:51:47
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
The B-2 Spirit wasn't introduced until 1997?! I want to crap myself...
Posted 2015-05-23 04:30:28
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
All right, Stag...I see you're getting aggressive. I guess I'm going to have to follow suit.
Posted 2015-05-23 03:20:46
BlackflagBlackflag
Okay, I'll edit my action to have the USSR support the seperatist government of South Yemen that arose in 1993.
Posted 2015-05-20 10:13:31
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
By the way, I just realized that your action involving South Yemen is invalid, seeing as how Yemen reunified in 1990.
Posted 2015-05-20 10:02:09
BlackflagBlackflag
I know. This is an alternate history where the Soviet Union took power and Russia was never created . I had already written an entry at one point that the Soviet Union began a slow process replacing the T-80 with T-90's as the Soviet MBT in 1992, but then I deleted it because it seemed like that was a bit of a filler paragraph.
Posted 2015-05-16 12:16:44
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
By the way, the T-90 did not enter service until 1993.
Posted 2015-05-16 07:55:31
BlackflagBlackflag
Hm, this was a misunderstanding on my part. I thought two of the disputed islands belonged to Japan, but apparently these two islands are disputed as not being part of the Kuril islands
Posted 2015-05-14 22:55:13
Bolshevik-Bolshevik-
"The Soviet Union drafted a plan with China to occupy the Kuril Islands and establish an airbase and naval port if tensions with Japan intensified"

The Soviet Union invaded and occupied the Kuril Islands during the last days of WW2 in 1945 along with Manchuria, North Korea, and Sakhalin.
Posted 2015-05-14 17:55:21
VoiceVoice
@Stag, I see what you mean.
Posted 2015-05-13 03:56:51
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Yeah.
Posted 2015-05-13 03:40:28
BlackflagBlackflag
Something like that. I'll make a detailed list of what divisions of the Soviet Union I'll be disbanding next round, along with their purpose and the location in which they were stationed.
Posted 2015-05-13 03:40:16
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
So basically your strategy is to hold on to your communist holdings and use Collective Security to allow you to spend less on military?
Posted 2015-05-13 03:38:41
BlackflagBlackflag
@Swag - I am trying to keep the debate as historically accurate as possible. The Warsaw Pact was disbanded by July 1st 1991. The hardliners who took power from Mikail Gorbachev were intent on reclaiming the glory of the Soviet Union. They didn't want communism to be reduced to a "Russian SSR." The actions that took place are pretty realistic in the fact they could of reasonably happened. Many Communist leaders were crying for the loss of Poland, and you can find statements from most of the "hardliners" that they wanted Poland and the Baltic States back.

I am happy to defend the historical plausability of any of my actions though.

BTW, kudos on the actions you have chosen for your "Second Cold War." It will be interesting seeing how I will deal with the NATO blockade in the Sea of Mamara and the thaw of relations with Cuba. I am going by the assumption that certain "actions" will be aware to the other nation, such as invasions and diplomatic treaties, right?

Posted 2015-05-13 03:38:24
BlackflagBlackflag
@Iizaboi This debate takes place from an alternate history where the Soviet Politburo succeeding in taking over the country with the assistance of the KGB in the 1991 coup de at. I was aware of the economic conditions of the Soviet Union at the time when I decided to choose 1992 as a starting date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt

In real life, Russia experienced a huge economic recovery due to the massive stripping of the military that came with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Wouldn't want to spoil anything, but part of my strategy would be to decommission as many non-essential military assets throughout the debate as possible.

Posted 2015-05-13 03:25:57
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
I didn't know that the Soviet Union would've reoccupied the Eastern Bloc prior to the starting date. Excuse my lack of knowledge.
Posted 2015-05-13 02:58:41
VoiceVoice
The Soviet Union had already collapsed by 1991...
Posted 2015-05-13 00:38:23
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
I'm pretty sure the Russian military collapsed at about this point, but okay...
Posted 2015-05-10 13:23:03
BlackflagBlackflag
Yeah I am sure. The Russian military was at its strong point, even if the economy wasn't.
Posted 2015-05-10 12:44:23
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
@Stag may be able to pull off a victory if he's clever and/or I prove unskilled, but realistically it'd be impossible.
You see, Soviet hardliners would've undone any progress in economic reform that Gorbachev had made. They would've reverted what was left of the Soviet Union (just Russia, most likely) back to the failing Soviet economic system. An already failing Russian economy would've gotten even worse. By the year 2000 probably over 30% of the Russian population would've been living beneath the official Soviet poverty line. Also, problems such as rampant alcoholism and horrifically low worker productivity would be even worse. Heck, these hardliners would likely be overthrown before 2000.
By this time (1992), it would've been clear to the world that the American system works and the Soviet system does not, meaning that it'd be unlikely the Soviets could turn another country (and there were already only a small handful) to Communism. Meanwhile, not only was the U.S. economy booming and the U.S. military technologically advanced and large, but U.S. leadership in the world was already a well-known fact, one demonstrated during the Gulf War.
Again, are you absolutely sure that you want this to begin in 1992?
Posted 2015-05-10 09:39:32
BlackflagBlackflag
Well I am treating this as a debate, not a game
Posted 2015-05-09 21:59:19
TejreticsTejretics
And this seems like an AOW debate lol :P
Posted 2015-05-09 21:02:39
TejreticsTejretics
Why is Con arguing first? How is that possible?
Posted 2015-05-09 21:01:05
BlackflagBlackflag
@Swag Amend it the first round like i iz a boi recommended
Posted 2015-05-08 12:24:19
VoiceVoice
You could just amend it in the first round or in the comments. Or perhaps you could cancel the debate and reinstate it with the proper adjustments.
Posted 2015-05-08 05:36:31
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
Like I said, I'm unable to change the settings now.
Posted 2015-05-08 04:48:26
VoiceVoice
Why January 21, 1981? The Cold War started in the 1950s after WWII.
Posted 2015-05-08 00:53:44
BlackflagBlackflag
I wouldn't be as stoked about arguing the T-80's performance over a US MBT as I would the T-90 is all I am trying to say
Posted 2015-05-07 14:29:29
Dassault PapillonDassault Papillon
I don't know how to change it now.
Posted 2015-05-07 14:29:17
BlackflagBlackflag
I kind of wanted the debate to start in 1992, under a scenario where Gorbachev and his liberal deputies were overthrown by Soviet hardliners. This allows a greater access to conflicts that happened after the original cold war, and we could compare US and Soviet technology at its most advanced stages.
Posted 2015-05-07 14:28:38
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Rules of the debate

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Instigator (that's me) will be role-playing as the United States of America.
My opponent will be role-playing as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, AKA the Soviet Union.
We'll begin on the date January 21, 1981 AD.
Actions will be discussed in the comments to determine their "legality". A reasonable amount of detail is to be used to describe actions.
Responses to actions by one's opponent are optional.