Dassault Papillon (PRO)I forfeit.
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2015-02-01 07:23:39
| Speak Round
admin (CON)... fine. Although I'd prefer a debate. :)
Let the next round expire pro, that way the debate will end at the end of R2.
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2015-02-01 10:56:57
| Speak RoundDassault Papillon (PRO)Let's post in order to finish this quicker.
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2015-02-01 11:05:12
| Speak Roundadmin (CON)Well fine... whatever :)
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2015-02-01 11:06:10
| Speak RoundDassault Papillon (PRO)Mary had a little lamb
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2015-02-01 11:26:59
| Speak Roundadmin (CON)little lamb, little lamb!
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2015-02-01 13:01:49
| Speak Roundadmin (CON)Mary had a little lamb...
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2015-02-01 13:02:18
| Speak RoundDassault Papillon (PRO)Its fleece was *skin color neutral*
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2015-02-01 13:30:37
| Speak Round
Judge: nzlockie
Judge: ZeusYoda
...Dang. American Conservatism isn't even one unified ideology, isn't it?Posted 2015-01-31 15:00:14
Yes Gendo but how would you define American Conservatism etc? What would you say it means without reference to policy?Posted 2015-01-31 14:35:11
Entered the comments just to point out what admin was saying. Just clarify that round one Gendo. Posted 2015-01-31 14:00:42
American Conservatism, American Liberalism.Posted 2015-01-31 13:30:05
You can't tie a debate but I'll delete it if there's good reason.
How would you have defined it? I didn't actually think that would be contentious.Posted 2015-01-31 12:50:32
Dang. Can I call off this debate and it's officially considered a tie?Posted 2015-01-31 12:46:33
The way I always learnt it - conservatism = seeks to conserve social orders in politics, liberalism = seeks to achieve freedom and equality through politics. In New Zealand conservatism often has a liberal streak, while in the US liberalism has a bit of a conservative streak, which is why I think western liberal democracies generally (such as the USA or NZ) are the best place to set the motion.Posted 2015-01-31 12:35:29
The statement you just made logically presumes that American conservatives do not seek to preserve socialism, so agreeing to that inherently would be a contradiction for me. It is my contention that across the world and including America, many conservatives are socialist in many if not all of their beliefs, while many liberals have beliefs supporting (in whole or in part) the ideology of capitalism. If you want to establish that American politics is both unique in this respect and that this is the best country to frame the motion around, fine, your burden to prove.Posted 2015-01-31 12:32:55
Unless you can describe NZ Conservatism and Liberalism and it's similar to American Conservatism and Liberalism.Posted 2015-01-31 12:27:58
The term "Conservative" needs to be used in the context of American Conservatism, as there are probably countries where socialism has been the norm for a while and the Conservatives seek to preserve socialism there against the capitalist Liberals.Posted 2015-01-31 12:26:51
On the provisio that this is not used to make the motion tautological only. I have a serious problem with your use of the term "self described" because anybody could call themselves that ideology. They'd have to actually conform to normative values of what that ideology entails.
I'd also prefer not to set this debate exclusively in America (that sounds kinda suspicious to me, like you want to run this tautologically).
Other than that, sure.Posted 2015-01-31 11:36:43
I'll have to think about this before accepting.
However, so that there is no confusion, we're talking about Liberalism in the context of self-described American "Liberals" (and their ideology) today and we're talking about Conservatism in the context of self-described American "Conservatives" (and their ideology) today.
Do you agree to this?Posted 2015-01-31 06:37:19