Good luck to Stag!
As Pro it is my burden to show that Nargorno Karbakh should be reunited with Armenia. I will do this by affirming the following.
1. Self-Determination ought to be respected
2. The People of Nargorno Karabakh have repeatedly self-determined themselves part of Armenia
If the above is true than it follows that…
C. Nargorno Karabakh should be reunited with Armenia
Definitions:
Self Determination: The fundamental right of a nation or people of a given area to freely determine its own political status or form of government and to freely pursue its own cultural, economic, and social development without outside influence; independence.
1: Self-Determination ought to be respected
The root value of Self-Determination is freedom. Freedom is widely accepted as a fundamental right people inherently have. To infringe on this right is tyranny. Tyranny results in suffering. i.e. the holocaust is a quintessential example of harm that occurs when peoples freedom is ignored. Thus individual freedom ought to be respected. Included in this value is the freedom as a nation or people to self-determine.
A fundamental principle of international relations is Identity. Identity can be effective at binding a group of people that share a territory, language, culture, and/or customs. It can also tightly tie together groups of people that share economic, political, and/or religious history. Self-Determination exemplifies the principle of identity as a group of people collectively decide together the type of government they will establish. Identity binds a group together cohesively.
2: The People of Nargorno Karabakh have repeatedly self-determined themselves part of Armenia
“On 13 February 1988, Karabakh Armenians began demonstrating in their capital, Stepanakert, in favour of unification with the Armenian republic. Six days later they were joined by mass marches in Yerevan. On February 20, the Soviet of People's Deputies in Karabakh voted 110 to 17 to request the transfer of the region to Armenia.” (1)
“On 29 November 1989….. a joint session of the Armenian Supreme Soviet and the National Council, the legislative body of Nagorno-Karabakh, proclaimed the unification of Nagorno-Karabakh with Armenia.”(1)
It is a historical fact that the people have elected to self-determine as part of Armenia. They share an identity. Therefore,Nargorno Karbakh should be reunited with Armenia.
Sources:
(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh
Return To Top | Posted:
I am glad my opponent chose to venture outside of his comfort zone when he selected to do this debate. There is one clarification I would like to make before we begin . The topic says "reunited," implying that Nagorno Karabahk was once apart of modern day Armenia, which it was not, unless you include the ancient Kingdom of Armenia.
- If the republic was annexed, the Artsakh would almost certainly be made into an autonomous province of Armenia with independent governance, which is what they already have under the Azerbaijan government
- There is no recognized land connection between Armenia and Artsahk, and Azeri airspace would never be granted to Armenia. Artsakh therefore would be isolated entirely from the world and Armenia, whereas they wouldn't be as an autonomous republic under Azerbaijan, or even an independent state in which they had received political recognition from Azerbaijan
- Due to a blockade from Turkey and Azerbaijan, Armenia only has one trade route, and that is through the port of Batumi, Georgia. The Republic of Georgia, like almost every other country in the world, recognizes Nagorno-Karabahk as an autonomous province of Azerbaijan. The annexation of the Republic of Artsakh would likely result in a reaction from Georgia and other coastal nations in which Armenian goods go to from Batumi.
- The current republic of Artsakh is a puppet state of Armenia. The region is a cold war frozen conflict zone. Diplomatic annexation may very well unthaw the region and lead to an all out war. Even if it were to not, giving Armenia the legitimacy to build an army in Nagorno-Karabakh wouldn't be good for anybody.
- Azerbaijan is a state renowned for its post-soviet secular policies, and Azeri citizens under the Soviet Union had developed and invested in Nagorno-Karabakh for decades. They should have a say when it comes to a vote on secession, because they justifiably believe Nagorno-Karabakh to be apart of the Azeri Turkish homeland. As it has been shown, a vote on secession would fail if you included all Karabakh and Azerbaijan peoples.
Return To Top | Posted:
Stag offers a kritik of the resolve stating “The topic says "reunited," implying that Nagorno Karabahk was once apart of modern day Armenia, which it was not…” There are two reasons not to buy this kritik.
1. He rebuts it himself saying “, unless you include the ancient Kingdom of Armenia.”
2. We are arguing what “should” be, thus the kritik hardly effects the outcome as it only address what the resolution implies “was.”
My opponent than lists 5 reasons as to why he is opposed to the resolution.
1. First he argues little change would occur regarding governance. The impact of this argument is nill as he has not outlined any harm.
2. He argues there is no land connection. This is an especially weak argument as many nations of the world have their land split in similar ways. Firstly any nation that has an island. Perhaps the best example is Alaska being a part of the U.S. No land connection there, and no harm. My opponent claims the harm for this is Azeri airspace would never be granted. He does not provide any reasoning to back this just claims it to be true… this is what we call, hearsay.
3. Here my opponent claims that annexation would likely result in a reaction from Georgia and other coastal nations. He does not indicate whether this result would be harmful or beneficial and thus there is no harm indicated in this argument.
4. My opponent claims this change to be the cause of a “all out war.” Oddly he does not offer any reason for this conclusion. He just claims it. Again a case of hearsay.
5. This is perhaps my opponent’s strongest objection. He says “Azeri citizens under the Soviet Union had developed and invested in Nagorno-Karabakh for decades. They should have a say when it comes to a vote on secession.” This is outweighed by the value of self-determination. He claims that “, a vote on secession would fail if you included all Karabakh and Azerbaijan peoples.” I have provided historical examples of these people attempting to self-determine themselves part of Armenia. Clearly this is their right… and their desire.
Conclusion:
My opponents contentions include little to no harm, and little to no sources. He has made many claims without providing reasoning. The arguments are also outweighed by the value of freedom exemplified by self-determination.
It is a historical fact that the people have elected to self-determine as part of Armenia. They share an identity. Therefore,Nargorno Karbakh should be reunited with Armenia.
Return To Top | Posted:
Kudos for David's speedy reply. I'll be sure to return the favor. I am aware of the bug below this sentence and I am leaving it for admin to reference #RhymeZone
Drafts are being saved for you automatically, but keeping your own backup is still a good idea Save Draft Manually NowSave Draft Manually Now
Return To Top | Posted:
Great feedback. Thanks!Posted 2015-05-31 11:23:34
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:25:06
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:24:58
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:24:36
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:24:28
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:24:15
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:24:05
They don't have to but it is worth 1/3rd of a regular judgementPosted 2015-05-31 07:23:26
Do the judges not have to give any kind of rfd?Posted 2015-05-31 06:30:39
Ah, judged Posted 2015-05-31 04:51:48
The debate will be voted on by at least 4 people. The judgements from the core users are just a bit longer and more detailed, and I know several members read the debate several times before writing a judgement.Posted 2015-05-31 04:51:31
Unvoted..... Auto correctPosted 2015-05-31 02:55:46
How often do debates go invited?Posted 2015-05-31 02:55:17
Thanks. That was a pretty good 8000 character total debatePosted 2015-05-30 16:01:59
Good round stag! Posted 2015-05-30 16:00:37
Thanks admin Posted 2015-05-30 06:16:08
There you go @StagPosted 2015-05-30 06:12:25
I am good with that.Posted 2015-05-30 06:08:06
BTW, there were bullets in there when I was listing the reasons I was going to argue next roundPosted 2015-05-30 05:39:52
If it is cool with both David and @admin , can we put this argument back into my round?Posted 2015-05-30 05:37:56
So it wouldn't let me post it, probably because I just missed the deadline (I can't read the times on certain devices)
Anyways I learned from my mistakes and recovered my argument
"I am glad my opponent chose to venture outside of his comfort zone when he selected to do this debate. There is one minor clarification I would like to make before we begin . The topic says "reunited," implying that Nagorno Karabahk was once apart of modern day Armenia, which it was not, unless you include extremely ancient Kingdom of Armenia, which is how the current Republic of Artsakh got its name.
Nagorno-Karabahk is an internationally recognized autonomous region of Azerbaijan. Unlike the majority of Azerbaijan, Nagorno Karabahk is the only region in which there are not a majority of Azeri Muslims, but rather Armenian Christians. In the late 80's during the Soviet reform period under Mikail Gorbachev, a strong Armenian secessionist movement occurred in the Nagorno-Karabahk region of the Azerbaijan SSR, followed by a brief skirmish of Armenian and Azeri SSR troop reserves across the countryside.
Two months after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the creation of the Armenian and Azerbaijan nation states, Armenian guerrillas started a high intensity warfare campaign within Nagorno-Karabakh which led to the establishment of a temporary government known as the Republic of Artsakh, or the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. To prevent the Azerbaijan army from crushing the rebellion, the Armenian army invaded the country through the desert valley around the city of Zanrijan, where they established a heavily fortified supply route to the rebels, in which reinforcements, heavy artillery, and equipment would supplement the battered mountain militias.
It was three years after the violence stopped with a combined Artsahk and Armenian victory, but tensions were still wide on the borders, and since 1994 many ethnic clashes and border skirmishes have occurred between Armenians and Azeri citizens.
That is a short and much needed background of the current circumstances of the Republic of Artsahk. We are debating the topic on whether Artsahk should be reunited with Armenia. There are several immediate reasons I could think of that led me to believe this would be a terrible idea.
If the republic was annexed, the Artsakh would almost certainly be made into an autonomous province of Armenia with independent governance, which is what they already have under the Azerbaijan government
There is no recognized land connection between Armenia and Artsahk, and Azeri airspace would never be granted to Armenia. Artsakh therefore would be isolated entirely from the world and Armenia, whereas they wouldn't be as an autonomous republic under Azerbaijan, or even an independent state in which they had received political recognition from Azerbaijan
Due to a blockade from Turkey and Azerbaijan, Armenia only has one trade route, and that is through the port of Batumi, Georgia. The Republic of Georgia, like almost every other country in the world, recognizes Nagorno-Karabahk as an autonomous province of Azerbaijan. The annexation of the Republic of Artsakh would likely result in a reaction from Georgia and other coastal nations in which Armenian goods go to from Batumi.
The current republic of Artsakh is a puppet state of Armenia. The region is a cold war frozen conflict zone. Diplomatic annexation may very well unthaw the region and lead to an all out war. Even if it were to not, giving Armenia the legitimacy to build an army in Nagorno-Karabakh wouldn't be good for anybody.
Azerbaijan is a state renowned for its post-soviet secular policies, and Azeri citizens under the Soviet Union had developed and invested in Nagorno-Karabakh for decades. They should have a say when it comes to a vote on secession, because they justifiably believe Nagorno-Karabakh to be apart of the Azeri Turkish homeland. As it has been shown, a vote on secession would fail if you included all Karabakh and Azerbaijan peoples.
It is in the interests of all parties except power hungry imperialists to not support the annexation of Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia."Posted 2015-05-30 05:36:55
Is there a way to extend time?Posted 2015-05-30 05:03:01
You have twenty mins..... Are you gonna make it?Posted 2015-05-30 05:02:19
20 HoursPosted 2015-05-29 09:02:35
Can someone tell me the time left on this debatePosted 2015-05-29 08:54:29
I knew next to nothing about Nagorno Karabahk before this debate.Posted 2015-05-28 05:27:13
Yes you will. 4000 characters guys! Good luck! Posted 2015-05-28 00:39:29
So I will have 2 days to post my argument right?Posted 2015-05-27 10:53:15
Fun... GL StagPosted 2015-05-27 10:50:23
Ah, I was hoping I would have a chance to do this topic. Luckily for me I got the devils advocate positionPosted 2015-05-27 10:38:13
I like the idea of a "secret topic" debate.Posted 2015-05-27 06:23:02