Views on Abortion

Bi0Hazard: Being morally acceptable is different from believing something should be legally acceptable.

I know. That's why I asked Crow that question after he replied with his legal thoughts.

Statists premise of "punishment/retribution is necessary to reduce murder, infanticide, and torture" isn't even true.

I agree. I don't believe that it is "necessary" to reduce these criminal acts though I do believe that it is the most effective way to handle the issue.

Punishment isn't what stops these issues, it is the health(moral and structural) of the society.

I think that punishment stretches beyond the objective of "stop[ping]" these issues. It is also about stopping these people from committing these crimes again. Of course, the moral and structural health of a society is important and that can definitely be worked upon whilst also having punishment within society. I doubt that you'll make the claim that in morally and structurally healthy societies there will be absolutely no crime - so why not have a morally and structurally health society whilst also having punishment for those that still break the law (even in that environment).

Bi0Hazard: There is no point where life begins, it is a continuous process. As soon as the human is born, the process is over and is now left to grow.

What are your thoughts on MRSGREN?

Famousdebater: I agree. I don't believe that it is "necessary" to reduce these criminal acts though I do believe that it is the most effective way to handle the issue.
Punishment/retribution doesn't prevent these things from happening, it is retaliation to those who already done it.
I think that punishment stretches beyond the objective of "stop[ping]" these issues. It is also about stopping these people from committing these crimes again.
Retribution doesn't prevent people from committing crimes again. Rehabilitation has actually done better at preventing these from happening again.
Of course, the moral and structural health of a society is important and that can definitely be worked upon whilst also having punishment within society.
I agree, and you don't even need punishment for a safe society, but there can be.
I doubt that you'll make the claim that in morally and structurally healthy societies there will be absolutely no crime
Well, crime requires a law and if you live in a stateless society, there would be no crime. However, murder, infanticide, torture, and rape may certainly still exist.
If there is a state, then there will still be crimes.
- so why not have a morally and structurally health society whilst also having punishment for those that still break the law (even in that environment).
I oppose the state in general, believing we are better off without it and instead living in a society built on voluntary cooperation, but you certainly can have punishment and the state.
What are your thoughts on MRSGREN?
Another definition of life. There is no universal agreed on definition of life and in the case of abortion, I don't really care. It is all a continuous process. The moral arguments on personhood can not be answered by science. If you want to read about another perspective on life and abortion, read this: http://www.justfactsdaily.com/the-science-of-abortion-when-does-life-begin/

I'm Pro-Choice at this and they should be able to abort to the point before birth.

the world is overpopulated and people need to stop having kids just for a bit, without the shitty government with all its bulshit we wouldent have to worry about overpopulation

Famousdebater: Whilst, personally, I would never undergo an abortion, I believe that it is every woman's right to choose - or not to choose - to have a baby. Abortion is legalised in most advanced, progressive countries as it should be! There are certain situations where many women would be traumatised to have a baby especially in the case of a pregnancy caused by rape. Nobody has the right to dictate to a woman when or when she cannot have a baby - the decision is hers because it is HER body. I know a lot of religious people will complain about this view but there is no place for religious hypocrisy forced upon the lives of others!