Orlando shooting

Bi0Hazard: But that is how democracy works...
It doesn't matter what political system it's under. The majority doesn't determine what's right or true.

Krazy: All things considered, neither does the minority.

The reason for democracy was due to the enlightenment age belief that rule by many is superior to rule by the few. I do not believe in either.

The purpose of the first amendment was to prevent the federal government from imposing a certain denomination of Christianity over the states. The states could have their own state-estsblished denominations. Thomas Jefferson confirmed this when he said:


Two things.

The constitution was non-descript on what religions could be worshipped. All religions could be worshipped by God, and if the distinction were set only for Christian denominations (I clearly recall you saying that certain denominations of Christianity were farces) then it would of been explicitly written in the first amendment.

Thomas Jefferson is irrelevant. He was controversial, socially awkward, immoral, and not even present at the constitutional convention.

Crow: All things considered, neither does the minority.
Absolutely.

Krazy: You know, I have been wondering something.

All your beliefs rest on God being a figure to listen too.

The only thing you never explained is why? How do you know he exists? How do you know the God in existence is the Christian God? If the Christian God exists, why do you worship him? How do you distinguish whether the Christian God is anthropomorphic of polytheistic?

Would it be fair to say that all your beliefs are unfounded if you cannot answer these questions properly?

Krazy: No it's not. It's a republic.
A republic is just a type of a democracy where they have elected representatives.
Republic definition- a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
Democracy- a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives
Democracy is rule by the people, but its done through majority vote.

Krazy: It doesn't matter what political system it's under. The majority doesn't determine what's right or true.
That is how voting works, the nominee with the most votes is the winner. For example, there is a good chance Hillary Clinton will win the U.S. election, if she does, she got majority approval and then she can go raise the minimum wage, ban assault rifles(at least try), and she supports gay marriage and marijuana legalization and amnesty. I am sure you don't like that, but the majority chose and that is how elections work. So values will change over time according to what the public may want. If you want to live somewhere where there always remains christian values, then maybe fascism?

And the American colonies were clearly established Christian States.

The charter for a colony in Virginia said that the colonists wanted:
[T]o make habitation...and to deduce a colony of sundry of our people into that part of America commonly called Virginia...in propagating of Christian religion to such people as yet live in darkness.
-Historical collections: Consisting of State Papers and other Authentic Documents: Intended as Materials for an History of the United States of America, Ebenezer Hazard, editor (Philadelphia: T. Dobson, 1792), Vol. I, pp.50-51.

And another charter for Virginia said:
[T]he principle effect which we can desire or expect of this action is the conversion...of the people in those parts unto the true worship of God and Christian religion.
-Hazard, Historical Collections, Vol I, p.72.

When the Pilgrims found a colony in Massachusetts, they formed a government charter that said:
Having undertaken for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith...[we] combine ourselves together into a civil body politic for...furtherance of the ends aforesaid.
-Holy Trinity at 466; see also Hazard, Historical Collections, Vol. I, p. 119.

The Quakers and other groups that formed the North Carolina charter described what they were:
[E]xcited with a laudable and pious zeal for the propagation of the Christian faith...in the parts of America not yet cultivated or planted, and only inhabited by...people who have no knowledge of Almighty God.
-North Carolina History, Hugh Talmage Leaflet, editor (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1956), p.16.

Charters of Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Jersey, and other places said virtually the same thing.

The first constitution written in the United States, the "Fundamental Orders of Connecticut", was the direct forerunner of the current federal Constitution. And it said:
[W]ell knowing when a people are gathered together, the word of God requires that to maintain the peace and union of such a people, there should be an orderly and recent government established according to God...[E]nter into combination and confederation together to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus which we now profess...which, according to the truth of the said Gospel, is now practiced amongst us.
-The Code of 1650, Being a Compilation of the Earliest Laws and Orders of the General Court of Connecticut (Hartford: Silus Andrus, 1822), p.2.

4 American colonies, including Massachusetts and Connecticut, united to form the "New England Confederation", which was the first united government in America. Their document said:
[W]e all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely to advance the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.
-Hazard, Historical Collections, Vol. I, p. 1.

John Locke helped to form the Carolina Constitution said that nobody could be a citizen unless they believed in God, was a member of a church, and didn't use any abusive language about any religion.
-John Locke, A Collection of Several Pieces of Mr. John Locke Never Before Printed (London: J. Bettenham, 1720), pp. 3, 41, 45, 46.

There are many other documents and constitutions of many other states that said the same thing. Anybody who believes that America was not founded on Christianity is very ignorant of American history.

Bi0Hazard: That is how voting works, the nominee with the most votes is the winner
I'm talking about truth in general. Majority opinion doesn't determine right and wrong.

Crow: The only thing you never explained is why? How do you know he exists? How do you know the God in existence is the Christian God? If the Christian God exists, why do you worship him? How do you distinguish whether the Christian God is anthropomorphic of polytheistic?
Why do you deny that He exists? How did we get here?

Krazy: John Locke helped to form the Carolina Constitution said that nobody could be a citizen unless they believed in God, was a member of a church, and didn't use any abusive language about any religion.
This is a better wording:
John Locke helped to form the Carolina Constitution, which stated that nobody could be a citizen unless they believed in God, was a member of a church, and didn't use any abusive language about any religion.

Krazy: The United States is a nation, so in order for it to be found on Christianity, it must be a christian state. It never was, so therefore it wasn't founded on Christianity. Sure, it was founded by Christians, but it didn't have a Christian identity. You are speaking about the colonies, I am talking about since the constitution and declaration of Independence.

Bi0Hazard: The establishment clause always existed, I suppose, but at the time that America was founded the vast majority of Americans were devout Christians.

Krazy: I am not making an argument.

I am asking questions that support your fundamental belief. I always answer questions about my beliefs. It is the key to having a discussion.

Can you answer any of these questions?

How do you know a God exists? How do you know the God in existence is the Christian God? If the Christian God exists, why do you worship him? How do you distinguish whether got is anthropomorphic vs polytheistic?

Bi0Hazard: The United States is a nation, so in order for it to be found on Christianity, it must be a christian state
Are you talking about the federal government, or the state governments?

Sure, it was founded by Christians, but it didn't have a Christian identity
Read those state constitutions.

You are speaking about the colonies, I am talking about since the constitution and declaration of Independence.
The 13 colonies existed after independance and the federal constitution.

Crow: All of your questions are answered in Romans 1:18-22.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Everybody knows that God exists. It's just whether they will they suppress the truth or profess the truth.

Krazy: Could you explain it yourself.

The holy spirit is an argument for the existence of God. Not the existence of the Christian God, or a justification for his worship. It also doesn't answer how you know God is anthropomorphic or polytheistic.

Ultimately only one question was answered, and hardly so.

Krazy: I am talking about the U.S. constitution and the federal government.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
-Thomas Jefferson

Crow: Could you explain it yourself.
I did, at the end of my last post. There's no such thing as an atheist. God has shown Himself to all men. It's just a matter of wether they will suppress the truth or profess the truth.

Ultimately only one question was answered, and hardly so.
They aren't genuine questions. You know that God exists.

Bi0Hazard: I am talking about the U.S. constitution and the federal government
Right. The federal government should stay out of it. But the state constitutions declared that they preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the Carolina constitution stated that you had to be a Christian essentially to be a citizen. Don't say this country wasn't founded on Christianity.

And the beginning of the first amendment said "Congress shall make no law..." Congress can't do that, but the States can. And they did.